Need help indentiiying this dagger.

Kurt · 8th February 2010, 05:32 PM

I have no idea how old or or where it comes from .
Maybe India or Ceylon?
Is the handle of ivory.
But what kind?
Regards
Kurt

VANDOO · 8th February 2010, 06:13 PM

ITS THE TRADITIONAL DAGGER FROM THE MALDIVES A SERIES OF ISLANDS SOUTH OF SIRI LANKA. THE POMMEL IS MADE OF A SPERM WHALE TOOTH AS IS TRADITIONAL. THERE MAY BE SOME INFORMATION IN OLD POSTS IN THE OLDEST FORUM ARCHIVES

. NICE ONE

Jim McDougall · 8th February 2010, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANDOO

ITS THE TRADITIONAL DAGGER FROM THE MALDIVES A SERIES OF ISLANDS SOUTH OF SIRI LANKA. THE POMMEL IS MADE OF A SPERM WHALE TOOTH AS IS TRADITIONAL. THERE MAY BE SOME INFORMATION IN OLD POSTS IN THE OLDEST FORUM ARCHIVES

. NICE ONE

Vandoo, you are absolutely the master of esoterica!!!! Hope all is well there in the Smithsonian-West

!!

All the best,
Jim

Battara · 8th February 2010, 10:03 PM

This one is nicer than others I have seen - I like the silver koftgari on the blade.

VANDOO · 9th February 2010, 12:27 AM

IT IS A NICE ONE MADE IN THE TRADITIONAL WAY AND THE BLADE DECORATIONS ARE NOT COMMON ON THESE. IT APPEARS TO HAVE SOME AGE TO IT DUE TO THE COLOR OF THE IVORY HANDLE.
THE FIRST TIME I WAS ABLE TO i.d. SOMETHING ON THE FORUM WAS ONE OF THESE DAGGERS THAT ARTZI HAD POSTED LOOKING FOR AN I. D. I FOUND THE POST WHILE LOOKING THRU THE ARCHIVES WHERE IT HAD LANGUISHED UNANSWERED. SO I HAVE FOND MEMORIES OF HAVING BEEN ABLE TO CONTRIBUTE SOME KNOWLEGE. PERHAPS IF I RETURN TO THE MALDIVES AGAIN I CAN GET THE NAME IT IS KNOWN BY THERE.

drdavid · 9th February 2010, 10:44 AM

Here is another example, not quite so nice. The metal pieces between the ivory were aluminium. This one had a little curve in the tip, which the Maldivian gentleman who sold it to me said was to write on the traditional leaves used as 'parchment' in the Maldives but more probably just due to misuse. Very interesting and unusual knives
drd

Kurt · 9th February 2010, 12:55 PM

Vandoo,
tThanks for the information.
There is information about the age?
As you can see the handle, ivory, silver, copper and steel.

spiral · 9th February 2010, 08:39 PM

What a lovely example Kurt!

Ive been trying to get a fellow kukri collector & friend to let me have his versian of one evry time I see his collection, One day he will swap for something!

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANDOO

PERHAPS IF I RETURN TO THE MALDIVES AGAIN I CAN GET THE NAME IT IS KNOWN BY THERE.

This may help narrow down the name of these, but I hope your lucky enough to get back to the Maldives sometime!

Accodsing to Francois Pyrard works, Its most likely called a 'fiyohi' or more utility versions refered to as 'valhi',

From..

"The Voyage of Francois Pyrard of Laval to the East Indies, the Maldives, the Moluccas and Brazil" 1611.

Translated into English from the third French edition of 1619 and edited with notes by Albert Gray assisted by H.C.P. Bell - 1887.
.................................................. ...

"Knives"
"Ordinary Maldive waist knives, 'valhi', chastely inlaid with silver and mother-of-pearl, leave nothing to be desired in portability and serviceableness, whilst for shape and handsome finish the larger silver-mounted knife-dagger with ivory handle, 'fiyohi', worn exclusively by grandees and soldiers, is unique. Knife handles are carved from 'kuredhi' ironwood, 'endheri' black coral , and 'bodumas dhaiy' whale's teeth."
.................................................. ...........

Spiral

spiral · 11th February 2010, 09:53 AM

Further to my above post a quick search of an online Maldavean dictionary brings up this!

more grist to the mill of knowledge!

Spiral

drdavid · 11th February 2010, 10:55 AM

A little more on fanditha here for those who are interested
http://www.maldivesculture.com/
drd

spiral · 16th February 2010, 01:29 AM

Excelent Drdavid! Thank you for sharing that! It so good when people share knowledge & sources on these rare items I think!

What with Vandoos excelent & precise identification, my sharing of possible original names with references & your adding to the info about the more "magic" side of things its realy helped nail it down I think! {Although of course more precise knowledge, photos,storys etc. are always required by such inquiring minds as serious collecters of our ilk.}

But I am sure we will see such identfication used in futre by the few dealers & collecters who peruse this forum lucky enough to find such pieces in futre! Its often the way.

Hopefully Kurt will one day look back at this thread & see the sharing of rare knowledge his thread on his lovely& rare example started for all our benifit.

Spiral

VANDOO · 16th February 2010, 04:12 AM

IF ANY MEMBERS EVER VISIT THE MALDIVE ISLANDS THE TOWN OF MALE IS THE CAPITOL. VISIT THE NATIONAL MUSEUM IN THE SULTANS OLD PALACE IN THE SULTANS PARK. IT IS KIND OF RUN DOWN BUT STILL HAS SOME INTERESTING ARTEFACTS AND WEAPONS. EVIDENTLY THE SULTAN WAS A WARRIOR AND HOSTED MANY FIGHTING TOURNAMENTS MANY FEATURING SPEAR FIGHTING. THE DAGGER IS UNIQUE AND SO ARE SOME OF THE FIGHTING SPEARS WHICH RESEMBLE THOSE FROM SIRI LANKA. I WAS THERE TO SCUBA DIVE AS IT IS A WORLD CLASS DIVING DESTINATION.
THERE ARE SOUVINEER DAGGERS FOR SALE THERE SOME MADE WITH PICES OF BLACK CORAL AND SOME WITH MOTHER OF PEARL SHELL GLUED TOGETHER TO FORM THE HANDLE AND SCABBARDS. THERE ARE A FEW DAGGERS MADE IN THE ORIGINAL FORM AS WELL BUT ARE EXPENSIVE DUE TO THE WHALE TEETH AND THE PRESENCE OF CRUZE SHIPS MAKEING PORT THERE.

spiral · 19th February 2010, 02:54 PM

Excelent Vandoo! Thank you for sharing that important information with us, particularily that some are still made. The museam would be fascinating I am sure!

Spiral

Kurt · 19th February 2010, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiral

Excelent Vandoo! Thank you for sharing that important information with us, particularily that some are still made. The museam would be fascinating I am sure!

Spiral

I want to thank all the forum members.
They are very valuable insights.
Regards
Kurt

8th February 2010, 05:32 PM	#1
Kurt Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Germany Posts: 196	Need help indentiiying this dagger. I have no idea how old or or where it comes from . Maybe India or Ceylon? Is the handle of ivory. But what kind? Regards Kurt Attached Images Last edited by Kurt; 8th February 2010 at 05:54 PM.

9th February 2010, 10:44 AM	#6
drdavid Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 371	Here is another example, not quite so nice. The metal pieces between the ivory were aluminium. This one had a little curve in the tip, which the Maldivian gentleman who sold it to me said was to write on the traditional leaves used as 'parchment' in the Maldives but more probably just due to misuse. Very interesting and unusual knives drd Attached Images

9th February 2010, 12:55 PM	#7
Kurt Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Germany Posts: 196	Better pic. Vandoo, tThanks for the information. There is information about the age? As you can see the handle, ivory, silver, copper and steel. Attached Images

8th February 2010, 06:13 PM	#2
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	ITS THE TRADITIONAL DAGGER FROM THE MALDIVES A SERIES OF ISLANDS SOUTH OF SIRI LANKA. THE POMMEL IS MADE OF A SPERM WHALE TOOTH AS IS TRADITIONAL. THERE MAY BE SOME INFORMATION IN OLD POSTS IN THE OLDEST FORUM ARCHIVES . NICE ONE

8th February 2010, 10:03 PM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,229	This one is nicer than others I have seen - I like the silver koftgari on the blade.

9th February 2010, 12:27 AM	#5
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	IT IS A NICE ONE MADE IN THE TRADITIONAL WAY AND THE BLADE DECORATIONS ARE NOT COMMON ON THESE. IT APPEARS TO HAVE SOME AGE TO IT DUE TO THE COLOR OF THE IVORY HANDLE. THE FIRST TIME I WAS ABLE TO i.d. SOMETHING ON THE FORUM WAS ONE OF THESE DAGGERS THAT ARTZI HAD POSTED LOOKING FOR AN I. D. I FOUND THE POST WHILE LOOKING THRU THE ARCHIVES WHERE IT HAD LANGUISHED UNANSWERED. SO I HAVE FOND MEMORIES OF HAVING BEEN ABLE TO CONTRIBUTE SOME KNOWLEGE. PERHAPS IF I RETURN TO THE MALDIVES AGAIN I CAN GET THE NAME IT IS KNOWN BY THERE.

11th February 2010, 09:53 AM	#9
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Further to my above post a quick search of an online Maldavean dictionary brings up this! more grist to the mill of knowledge! Spiral

11th February 2010, 10:55 AM	#10
drdavid Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 371	A little more on fanditha here for those who are interested http://www.maldivesculture.com/ drd

16th February 2010, 01:29 AM	#11
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Excelent Drdavid! Thank you for sharing that! It so good when people share knowledge & sources on these rare items I think! What with Vandoos excelent & precise identification, my sharing of possible original names with references & your adding to the info about the more "magic" side of things its realy helped nail it down I think! {Although of course more precise knowledge, photos,storys etc. are always required by such inquiring minds as serious collecters of our ilk.} But I am sure we will see such identfication used in futre by the few dealers & collecters who peruse this forum lucky enough to find such pieces in futre! Its often the way. Hopefully Kurt will one day look back at this thread & see the sharing of rare knowledge his thread on his lovely& rare example started for all our benifit. Spiral

16th February 2010, 04:12 AM	#12
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	IF ANY MEMBERS EVER VISIT THE MALDIVE ISLANDS THE TOWN OF MALE IS THE CAPITOL. VISIT THE NATIONAL MUSEUM IN THE SULTANS OLD PALACE IN THE SULTANS PARK. IT IS KIND OF RUN DOWN BUT STILL HAS SOME INTERESTING ARTEFACTS AND WEAPONS. EVIDENTLY THE SULTAN WAS A WARRIOR AND HOSTED MANY FIGHTING TOURNAMENTS MANY FEATURING SPEAR FIGHTING. THE DAGGER IS UNIQUE AND SO ARE SOME OF THE FIGHTING SPEARS WHICH RESEMBLE THOSE FROM SIRI LANKA. I WAS THERE TO SCUBA DIVE AS IT IS A WORLD CLASS DIVING DESTINATION. THERE ARE SOUVINEER DAGGERS FOR SALE THERE SOME MADE WITH PICES OF BLACK CORAL AND SOME WITH MOTHER OF PEARL SHELL GLUED TOGETHER TO FORM THE HANDLE AND SCABBARDS. THERE ARE A FEW DAGGERS MADE IN THE ORIGINAL FORM AS WELL BUT ARE EXPENSIVE DUE TO THE WHALE TEETH AND THE PRESENCE OF CRUZE SHIPS MAKEING PORT THERE.

19th February 2010, 02:54 PM	#13
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Excelent Vandoo! Thank you for sharing that important information with us, particularily that some are still made. The museam would be fascinating I am sure! Spiral