Sword from ?

[kronckew]

Just acquired this sword. Can't figure out where/when it is from.



Circular guard plate is 4 in. across. Holes are round, 1/2 in. dia. Grip is 4.5 in.long, 1.5 in. wide, 1 in. thick, wood wrapped in leather strip. Knuckle bow is 1.25 in. wide. All the guard is steel. The pommel keeper is steel, as is the reinforcing late on the front where the blade enters. Slightly curved Blade is 29 in. long, 1.5 in/ wide at the guard. 5mm thick at the guard, slightly distal tapered to the tip. Tip has an 8 in. straight clipped point, semi-sharpened - about as sharp as a butter knife. Spine is slightly T shaped from guard to false edge. Blade has been field sharpened about halfway, rest is butter knife sharp. Balance is 8 in. forward of the grip.


Blade has been cleaned & polished. Guard has been cleaned, and japanned, looks like ther may have been sone light pitting. No markings.


Guard reminds me of a 1796 HC though the grip & pommel are different.


Any information appreciated.

[Hotspur]

This does not look old to me but rather a fairly recent effort to represent American revolutionary era wagon wheel guards. See Neumann for overall profile. Stacked leather grip, modern. Materials, modern.

Cheers
GC

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by Hotspur

This does not look old to me but rather a fairly recent effort to represent American revolutionary era wagon wheel guards. See Neumann for overall profile. Stacked leather grip, modern. Materials, modern. See pre-restoration hilt photo below.

Cheers
GC

Grip is definitely a light wood, had a leather cover falling off & covered with plastic tape, the 'new' antiqued leather flat lace is wound and glued over the wood. Blade was originally a bit tarnished and had rusty spots, so a previous owner polished it. Guard was also refinished & sprayed black. They got it with some other antiques & thought it was a naval cutlass marriage of some sort & not worth much.

I'll look up 'wagon wheel' swords...


Edited - Found some images online, looks nothing like one of those 'wagon wheel' guards/grips. Closest so far is Austro-Hungarian HC used as a model for the UK 1796 HC, tho both those have straight & longer hatchet pointed blades. Haven't found anything like it so far. If you find a 'replica' source, please post it.

[Jim McDougall]

Wayne, this is interesting and crudely follows certain elements of the so called 'disc hilt' cavalry swords, first the M1769 Austrian pallasch (as shown) and the 1796 British heavy cavalry dragoon sword. Gaspard LeMarchant, a British officer who was temporarily posted with Austrian cavalry had thought it a good idea to standardize British cavalry swords, and took the basic design of this disc hilt to create one of the first official British pattern swords.

This rudimentary sword only seems to follow the most distinctive element, the pierced disc, and seems almost theatrical or costume like in its allusion to either of these cavalry swords.

Still, it is intriguing to wonder who would have gone to such effort to create this, which could not possibly have been intended to deceive or be any sort of reproduction.

[BBJW]

Originally Posted by Hotspur

This does not look old to me but rather a fairly recent effort to represent American revolutionary era wagon wheel guards. See Neumann for overall profile. Stacked leather grip, modern. Materials, modern.

Cheers
GC

Looks as though someone had too much time on their hands.-- bbjw

[kronckew]

AHA! I think we have a winner! Found it's brother on the interthingy. Move to Ethnic?)

19c North African sword with European hilt

An interesting African sword of good quality...

The hilt formed as a european style hilt, similar to those of the naval cutlasses
of the 19th century, with a wide circular handguard, and a knuckleguard

[Hotspur]

Originally Posted by kronckew

Grip is definitely a light wood, had a leather cover falling off & covered with plastic tape, the 'new' antiqued leather flat lace is wound and glued over the wood. Blade was originally a bit tarnished and had rusty spots, so a previous owner polished it. Guard was also refinished & sprayed black. They got it with some other antiques & thought it was a naval cutlass marriage of some sort & not worth much.

I'll look up 'wagon wheel' swords...


Edited - Found some images online, looks nothing like one of those 'wagon wheel' guards/grips. Closest so far is Austro-Hungarian HC used as a model for the UK 1796 HC, tho both those have straight & longer hatchet pointed blades. Haven't found anything like it so far. If you find a 'replica' source, please post it.

So you have made it look modern

I mentioned Neumann, I am not sure if you have his book(s) 'Swords and Blades of the American Revolution' I am hesitant to start posting pages to better describe what I see in your sword. The hilt construction quite like the wagon wheels, cutlasses and other cruder assemblies of the 18th century.

Cheers
GC

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by Hotspur

So you have made it look modern
...
Cheers
GC

Not guilty
I bought it like that. They saved me the trouble of cleaning it up.
I probably wouldn't have polished it & left the black tarnish, tho I would have (and will) sharpen the edge better.