Kampilan with unusual Thalassic guard form

Bill M · 12th February 2007, 10:47 PM

Unusual Hilt.

Opinions?

VVV · 12th February 2007, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Marsh

Unusual Hilt.

Opinions?

Maybe I have missed something but the hilt doesn't look that unusual to me?
Very nicely carved though.

Michael

David · 13th February 2007, 12:08 AM

I agree...it's a nice hilt, but it doesn't look all that unusal to me either.

Bill M · 13th February 2007, 12:33 AM

I meant to say "unusual guard."

Well, maybe not THAT unusual!

A little bit unusual?

zelbone · 13th February 2007, 08:13 AM

I've got one...not that rare...

...saw a few with the same guard here in Mindanao as well. Unfortunately...most you wouldn't have access to these weapons.

FenrisWolf · 13th February 2007, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelbone

I've got one...not that rare...

...saw a few with the same guard here in Mindanao as well. Unfortunately...most you wouldn't have access to these weapons.

Now you have my curiosity piqued, and I don't even collect these. On one hand you say they aren't that rare, and on the other that most collectors wouldn't have access. Is there some special significance to the style of hilt that precludes it falling into the hnd of foreign collectors? Inquiring minds want to know!

Bill M · 13th February 2007, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelbone

I've got one...not that rare...

Zel - would you go for "unusual" I can't find anyone said "rare" in this thread

katana · 13th February 2007, 02:31 PM

Rare ? unusual ? less common? ......whatever the outcome....I really like the hilt..

...the zooamorphic 'pommel' is interesting...do you know what it represents. The 'square' jaw and large eyes puts me off the idea it is a Serpent's head.
However, the (metal ?) wavy piece ( not very scientific

) on the guard certainly 'shouts' snake and I'm sure there is significance to the number of 'curves'.

David · 13th February 2007, 02:39 PM

As for the guard Bill, i would say perhaps "less common" is the term i would use. I have seen far too many kampilan on eBay with this style guard to consider it "unusual", though yours is i much nicer example than most of the ones i've seen.

Bill M · 13th February 2007, 02:54 PM

Thanks, guys. I seem to have gotten into a description situation. I have been quoting a description of this kampilan from Cato's "Moro Swords." These are his words and I should be referencing him.

Please see pages 49 and 54 of "Moro Swords."

"34. A curved kampilan guard with an unusual thalassic form."

When I search for "thalassic" I see the "Free Onine Dictionary" saying:

Adj. 1. thalassic - relating to the seas, especially smaller or inland seas;- Scientific American

Thinking in this context, I assume the guard looks a bit like a boat. But it could have other meanings.

I apologise for not quoting my sources and will be sure to quote them in the future.

---- Bill

VANDOO · 13th February 2007, 09:17 PM

A NICE LOOKING KAMPILIAN

WHEN I FIRST STARTED COLLECTING IN THE 1960'S I NEVER SAW A KAMPILIAN WOOD GAURD THAT WAS DIFFERENT ON THE ENDS. KAMPILIANS WERE NOT SEEN OFTEN AT GUN SHOWS OR OTHER PLACES DURING THOSE TIMES BUT KRIS AND BARONG AND TAALIBON/GUNONG WERE FAIRLY COMMON. THERE WERE VARIATIONS IN THE DESIGN OF THE CROSSGAURDS BUT THE ENDS WERE ALWAYS THE SAME ON BOTH SIDES. I HAD NOT SEEN AN EXAMPLE OF THE FORM LIKE YOURS UNTILL EBAY CAME INTO BEING. SO PERHAPS THEY ARE A FORM FROM SOME AREA OR REGION NOT COMMONLY VISITED BY OUTSIDERS OR MORE LIKELY A MORE RECENT STYLE FORM. I HAVE NOT HANDLED A LOT OF EXAMPLES OF THESE SO CAN'T JUDGE THEIR AGE, WHAT IS YOUR OPINION LOOKING AT YOUR EXAMPLE PRE WW2 OR AFTER WW2?

I THINK KAMPILIAN, KRIS, PANABAS AND BARONG PRODUCTION HAS NEVER STOPPED ENTIRELY AND HAVE SEEN PLENTY OF EXAMPLES THAT HAVE BEEN ANTIQUED TO LOOK OLD ,SOME VERY WELL MADE AND SOME OF LESSER WORKMANSHIP. SOMETIMES THE BLADE IS AN OLDER ONE WITH NEWER FITTINGS WHICH IS TO BE EXPECTED BUT I SEE NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT AS LONG AS THE WORKMANSHIP IS GOOD QUALITY AND TRADITIONAL.

Tim Simmons · 13th February 2007, 09:31 PM

Very helpful post Barry, it is the right name I hope. Your post is clearly floral in decoration. The one Bill post is now clearly waves. Why is there such a distinction in design? I know little of this area except the general terms of Dayak and Sea Dayak which I suspect are rather collector/western terms even if there are communities that live by and from the sea.

VANDOO · 13th February 2007, 10:21 PM

KAMPILIAN ARE MOSTLY ASSOCIATED WITH THE MORO BUT I AM SURE THERE WERE SIMULAR SWORDS CARRIED BY OTHER GROUPS THRUOUT THE REGION. WHERE AND WHEN THEY ORIGINATED AND WHAT THE EARLY FORMS WERE LIKE AND WHICH TRIBES TRADITIONALY USED THEM IS UNKNOWN TO ME. I SUSPECT THEY EVOLVED FROM A SHORTER SWORD WITH A SIMULAR FORM PERHAPS LIKE THE TIBOLI OR BAGABO SWORDS OR DAYAK MANDAU.

THEY WERE A TRUE WAR SWORD AND NOT A TOOL OR JUST CARRIED AROUND EVERYDAY. THEY WERE ALSO CARRIED AT SPECIAL CEREMONYS OR COURT GATHERINGS AND PERHAPS THE WEAPON OF CHOICE FOR BODYGAURDS OF HIGH RANKING PEOPLE. I PERSONALLY ASSOCIATE THEM MOSTLY WITH COASTAL SEA FARING TRIBES OR THOSE LIVING ALONG THE RIVERS WITH ACCESS TO THE SEA. THE COMMON STYLIZED CROCODILE HEAD POMMELS WOULD ALSO POINT TO SEAFARING COMUNITYS VERSUS THOSE LIVING IN THE HIGHLANDS. THE FLORAL DECORATION IS QUITE COMMON PERHAPS FROM ISLAMIC INFLUENCES OR PERHAPS NOT

NOT KNOWING THE FIGHTING STYLES USED IT LEADS ME TO WONDER IF THEY WERE USED PRIMARLY ON LAND OR IF THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN EFFECTIVE FOR BATTLES ON BOARD SHIPS?

Tim Simmons · 13th February 2007, 10:31 PM

I think there has been a tendency to make a hard border between communities in this area, that in earlier times did not fit modern nation state ideas. Rather like vast areas of Africa, called one thing by us and another by them so to speak.

Spunjer · 14th February 2007, 03:14 PM

.

<<<==== is that unusual?

LabanTayo · 14th February 2007, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spunjer

.

<<<==== is that unusual?

looks radioactive to me....thats kinda unusual.

Spunjer · 14th February 2007, 05:21 PM

ahhh, that explains it. previous owner worked at Portsmouth Gaseous Diffusion Plant...

Rick · 14th February 2007, 06:21 PM

Here's unusual; simple though .

Anyone seen brass guards before ?

Bill M · 14th February 2007, 06:53 PM

This one seems to be brass. Don't know how original it is to the handle. It was like it when I got it. From the additional holes, I would guess that some other guard was born with it.

My dog likes it.

This kampilan has a very strange feeling about it.

VANDOO · 14th February 2007, 06:57 PM

SPUNGER I HAVE BEEN WONDERING ABOUT THAT ONE PERHAPS YOU COULD DO A POST ON IT WITH GOOD PICTURES AND A DESCRIPTION OF MATERIALS USED AND YOUR GUESS AT AGE ECT. I HAVE NOT SEEN ONE LIKE IT AND HAVE JUST BEEN GUESSING THAT IT HAS A CARVED BONE OR IVORY HANDLE

I WOULD DEFINITELY LIKE TO GET A BETTER LOOK AS IT LOOKS LIKE A REALLY NEAT SWORD.

RICK I HAVE ONLY SEEN THE ONE CAST BRONZE GAURD I THINK IT WAS YOURS ON A OLD POST. I HAVE ONE WITH A BRASS GAURD MADE FROM A PIECE OF THICK BAR STOCK WITH A SIMPLE DESIGN CUT INTO IT.
MOST OF THE KAMPILIANS I HAVE SEEN OVER THE YEARS DID NOT HAVE A METAL GAURD AT ALL. SOME HAD HOLES WHERE ONE MIGHT HAVE BEEN OR THEY MIGHT HAVE HAD A CORD ATTACHED THERE AS IN THE EXAMPLE I POSTED ABOVE. MOST OF THE METAL GAURDS HAVE BEEN THE IRON ONES BENT INTO LOOPS BUT I HAVE SEEN A FEW WITH BRASS USED INSTEAD OF IRON.

I TEND TO THINK THAT THE METAL GAURDS CAME INTO FASHION DURING A CERTIAN PERIOD AND MAY HAVE WENT OUT OF FASHION AGAIN IN LATER TIMES. IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO BE ABLE TO FIGURE OUT THE HISTORY OF THE KAMPILIAN AS THERE HAVE SURELY BEEN QUITE A FEW CHANGES OVER TIME RIGHT UP UNTIL THE PRESENT. IN THE OLD CLASSIC POST ON THEM I HAD A PICTURE OF ONE WITH A SEA EAGLE POMMEL WHICH I WOULD GUESS TO BE WW2 OR LATER BUT A LATER EXAMPLE POSTED SOMEWHERE APPEARED TO BE A OLDER EXAMPLE. I ALSO HAD A VERY OLD ONE WITH A POMMEL SHAPED LIKE A HAND OR PALM LEAF OR SOMETHING, I SAW ONE OTHER EXAMPLE OF THAT STYLE BUT HAVE NOT SEEN ANY NEWER ONES USING THAT FORM. I ALSO WONDER IF WHALE BONE IS BEING CARVED TODAY FOR KAMPILIAN HANDLES AND FOR KERIS AS I HAVE SEEN QUITE A FEW VERY NICE HIGH END EXAMPLES IN RECENT YEARS BUT NOT BEING ABLE TO HANDLE ANY COULD NOT GUESS AGE.

Rick · 14th February 2007, 07:30 PM

Bill, possibly yours had two guards and one has gone missing.

Barry, yes whalebone is still utilised; you see newer Bali wrankas carved from it.

Ian · 14th February 2007, 07:42 PM

Bill:

I think your guard and handle have been reworked/replaced. The ensemble looks rather pristine and the carving on the handle lacks a little of the refinement and patina of older examples. From the general pattern, I would guess second half of 20th C, Maranao work from the Lake Lanao region, where many of the more recent Kampilan hilts have originated.

Ian.

ariel · 14th February 2007, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Marsh

Thanks, guys. I seem to have gotten into a description situation. I have been quoting a description of this kampilan from Cato's "Moro Swords." These are his words and I should be referencing him.

Please see pages 49 and 54 of "Moro Swords."

"34. A curved kampilan guard with an unusual thalassic form."

When I search for "thalassic" I see the "Free Onine Dictionary" saying:

Adj. 1. thalassic - relating to the seas, especially smaller or inland seas;- Scientific American

Thinking in this context, I assume the guard looks a bit like a boat. But it could have other meanings.

I apologise for not quoting my sources and will be sure to quote them in the future.

---- Bill

As the old British academic doggerel goes:
"Thalassa or Thalatta?
The former or the latter?"

And, of course, the shout of relieved Xenophonic Greeks " Thalassa!" ( Or was it Thalatta, anyway?)

Tim Simmons · 15th February 2007, 06:39 PM

You say tomatoe, I say tomato

ariel · 15th February 2007, 10:21 PM

And, as per Dan Quaile " You say potato, and I say potatoe"

Andrew · 15th February 2007, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

And, as per Dan Quaile " You say potato, and I say potatoe"

lol. That's exactly what I was thinking.

Bill M · 15th February 2007, 11:01 PM

SO this UK guy comes to the USA. He asks an American farmer, What do you do with all your extra produce?"

The farmer replied, "We eat all we can and what we can't eat, we can."

The UK guy thought this was very funny and he returned home he told about the Ameican farmer in the Colonies, "They eat all they can and what they can't eat, they tin!"

wilked aka Khun Deng · 16th February 2007, 10:53 AM

All this time I thought it was a cockatoo, first time I'm hearing waves. Ian you were with me when I picked up this one and it's really similiar.

Dan

Ian · 16th February 2007, 11:43 AM

Dan:

I was thinking of your example a few days ago in relation to this thread. The rounded "curly" forms of decoration are relatively uncommon on kampilan and your example is unique in my experience -- definitely old (at least early 20th C) and well executed hilt and guard. In some ways the rounded curls remind me as much of vines and leaves as waves.

The guard on yours does look bird-like. Perhaps an eagle or cockatoo.

Like many of Cato's descriptions, one wonders where the term came from. He does not document his sources, and without that documentation one is left wondering if much of his information could be confirmed. Frustrating.

Ian.

Bill M · 16th February 2007, 01:07 PM

Any ideas about this one? Has it been highly modified, or was it born this way?

Sometimes I wonder if pieces were worked on to sell to tourists or were they battle pieces that the owner just thought, "Hey, fix this grip so I can get a good hold on it and let me get back to fighting!"

I got a kris around here somewhere.....

12th February 2007, 10:47 PM	#1
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	Kampilan with unusual Thalassic guard form Unusual Hilt. Opinions? Attached Images

13th February 2007, 09:17 PM	#11
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	A NICE LOOKING KAMPILIAN WHEN I FIRST STARTED COLLECTING IN THE 1960'S I NEVER SAW A KAMPILIAN WOOD GAURD THAT WAS DIFFERENT ON THE ENDS. KAMPILIANS WERE NOT SEEN OFTEN AT GUN SHOWS OR OTHER PLACES DURING THOSE TIMES BUT KRIS AND BARONG AND TAALIBON/GUNONG WERE FAIRLY COMMON. THERE WERE VARIATIONS IN THE DESIGN OF THE CROSSGAURDS BUT THE ENDS WERE ALWAYS THE SAME ON BOTH SIDES. I HAD NOT SEEN AN EXAMPLE OF THE FORM LIKE YOURS UNTILL EBAY CAME INTO BEING. SO PERHAPS THEY ARE A FORM FROM SOME AREA OR REGION NOT COMMONLY VISITED BY OUTSIDERS OR MORE LIKELY A MORE RECENT STYLE FORM. I HAVE NOT HANDLED A LOT OF EXAMPLES OF THESE SO CAN'T JUDGE THEIR AGE, WHAT IS YOUR OPINION LOOKING AT YOUR EXAMPLE PRE WW2 OR AFTER WW2? I THINK KAMPILIAN, KRIS, PANABAS AND BARONG PRODUCTION HAS NEVER STOPPED ENTIRELY AND HAVE SEEN PLENTY OF EXAMPLES THAT HAVE BEEN ANTIQUED TO LOOK OLD ,SOME VERY WELL MADE AND SOME OF LESSER WORKMANSHIP. SOMETIMES THE BLADE IS AN OLDER ONE WITH NEWER FITTINGS WHICH IS TO BE EXPECTED BUT I SEE NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT AS LONG AS THE WORKMANSHIP IS GOOD QUALITY AND TRADITIONAL. Attached Images Last edited by VANDOO; 13th February 2007 at 09:29 PM.

14th February 2007, 06:21 PM	#18
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,294	Here's unusual; simple though . Anyone seen brass guards before ? Attached Images

14th February 2007, 06:53 PM	#19
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	This one seems to be brass. Don't know how original it is to the handle. It was like it when I got it. From the additional holes, I would guess that some other guard was born with it. My dog likes it. This kampilan has a very strange feeling about it. Attached Images

16th February 2007, 10:53 AM	#28
wilked aka Khun Deng Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oahu, Hawaii Posts: 166	Waves??? All this time I thought it was a cockatoo, first time I'm hearing waves. Ian you were with me when I picked up this one and it's really similiar. Dan Attached Images

13th February 2007, 12:08 AM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,130	I agree...it's a nice hilt, but it doesn't look all that unusal to me either.

13th February 2007, 12:33 AM	#4
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	I meant to say "unusual guard." Well, maybe not THAT unusual! A little bit unusual?

13th February 2007, 08:13 AM	#5
zelbone Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: VISAYAS and MINDANAO Posts: 169	I've got one...not that rare... ...saw a few with the same guard here in Mindanao as well. Unfortunately...most you wouldn't have access to these weapons.

13th February 2007, 02:31 PM	#8
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Rare ? unusual ? less common? ......whatever the outcome....I really like the hilt.. ...the zooamorphic 'pommel' is interesting...do you know what it represents. The 'square' jaw and large eyes puts me off the idea it is a Serpent's head. However, the (metal ?) wavy piece ( not very scientific ) on the guard certainly 'shouts' snake and I'm sure there is significance to the number of 'curves'.

13th February 2007, 02:39 PM	#9
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,130	As for the guard Bill, i would say perhaps "less common" is the term i would use. I have seen far too many kampilan on eBay with this style guard to consider it "unusual", though yours is i much nicer example than most of the ones i've seen.

13th February 2007, 02:54 PM	#10
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	Thanks, guys. I seem to have gotten into a description situation. I have been quoting a description of this kampilan from Cato's "Moro Swords." These are his words and I should be referencing him. Please see pages 49 and 54 of "Moro Swords." "34. A curved kampilan guard with an unusual thalassic form." When I search for "thalassic" I see the "Free Onine Dictionary" saying: Adj. 1. thalassic - relating to the seas, especially smaller or inland seas;- Scientific American Thinking in this context, I assume the guard looks a bit like a boat. But it could have other meanings. I apologise for not quoting my sources and will be sure to quote them in the future. ---- Bill

13th February 2007, 09:31 PM	#12
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Very helpful post Barry, it is the right name I hope. Your post is clearly floral in decoration. The one Bill post is now clearly waves. Why is there such a distinction in design? I know little of this area except the general terms of Dayak and Sea Dayak which I suspect are rather collector/western terms even if there are communities that live by and from the sea.

13th February 2007, 10:21 PM	#13
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	KAMPILIAN ARE MOSTLY ASSOCIATED WITH THE MORO BUT I AM SURE THERE WERE SIMULAR SWORDS CARRIED BY OTHER GROUPS THRUOUT THE REGION. WHERE AND WHEN THEY ORIGINATED AND WHAT THE EARLY FORMS WERE LIKE AND WHICH TRIBES TRADITIONALY USED THEM IS UNKNOWN TO ME. I SUSPECT THEY EVOLVED FROM A SHORTER SWORD WITH A SIMULAR FORM PERHAPS LIKE THE TIBOLI OR BAGABO SWORDS OR DAYAK MANDAU. THEY WERE A TRUE WAR SWORD AND NOT A TOOL OR JUST CARRIED AROUND EVERYDAY. THEY WERE ALSO CARRIED AT SPECIAL CEREMONYS OR COURT GATHERINGS AND PERHAPS THE WEAPON OF CHOICE FOR BODYGAURDS OF HIGH RANKING PEOPLE. I PERSONALLY ASSOCIATE THEM MOSTLY WITH COASTAL SEA FARING TRIBES OR THOSE LIVING ALONG THE RIVERS WITH ACCESS TO THE SEA. THE COMMON STYLIZED CROCODILE HEAD POMMELS WOULD ALSO POINT TO SEAFARING COMUNITYS VERSUS THOSE LIVING IN THE HIGHLANDS. THE FLORAL DECORATION IS QUITE COMMON PERHAPS FROM ISLAMIC INFLUENCES OR PERHAPS NOT NOT KNOWING THE FIGHTING STYLES USED IT LEADS ME TO WONDER IF THEY WERE USED PRIMARLY ON LAND OR IF THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN EFFECTIVE FOR BATTLES ON BOARD SHIPS?

13th February 2007, 10:31 PM	#14
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	I think there has been a tendency to make a hard border between communities in this area, that in earlier times did not fit modern nation state ideas. Rather like vast areas of Africa, called one thing by us and another by them so to speak.

14th February 2007, 03:14 PM	#15
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	. <<<==== is that unusual?

14th February 2007, 05:21 PM	#17
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	ahhh, that explains it. previous owner worked at Portsmouth Gaseous Diffusion Plant...

14th February 2007, 06:57 PM	#20
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	SPUNGER I HAVE BEEN WONDERING ABOUT THAT ONE PERHAPS YOU COULD DO A POST ON IT WITH GOOD PICTURES AND A DESCRIPTION OF MATERIALS USED AND YOUR GUESS AT AGE ECT. I HAVE NOT SEEN ONE LIKE IT AND HAVE JUST BEEN GUESSING THAT IT HAS A CARVED BONE OR IVORY HANDLE I WOULD DEFINITELY LIKE TO GET A BETTER LOOK AS IT LOOKS LIKE A REALLY NEAT SWORD. RICK I HAVE ONLY SEEN THE ONE CAST BRONZE GAURD I THINK IT WAS YOURS ON A OLD POST. I HAVE ONE WITH A BRASS GAURD MADE FROM A PIECE OF THICK BAR STOCK WITH A SIMPLE DESIGN CUT INTO IT. MOST OF THE KAMPILIANS I HAVE SEEN OVER THE YEARS DID NOT HAVE A METAL GAURD AT ALL. SOME HAD HOLES WHERE ONE MIGHT HAVE BEEN OR THEY MIGHT HAVE HAD A CORD ATTACHED THERE AS IN THE EXAMPLE I POSTED ABOVE. MOST OF THE METAL GAURDS HAVE BEEN THE IRON ONES BENT INTO LOOPS BUT I HAVE SEEN A FEW WITH BRASS USED INSTEAD OF IRON. I TEND TO THINK THAT THE METAL GAURDS CAME INTO FASHION DURING A CERTIAN PERIOD AND MAY HAVE WENT OUT OF FASHION AGAIN IN LATER TIMES. IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO BE ABLE TO FIGURE OUT THE HISTORY OF THE KAMPILIAN AS THERE HAVE SURELY BEEN QUITE A FEW CHANGES OVER TIME RIGHT UP UNTIL THE PRESENT. IN THE OLD CLASSIC POST ON THEM I HAD A PICTURE OF ONE WITH A SEA EAGLE POMMEL WHICH I WOULD GUESS TO BE WW2 OR LATER BUT A LATER EXAMPLE POSTED SOMEWHERE APPEARED TO BE A OLDER EXAMPLE. I ALSO HAD A VERY OLD ONE WITH A POMMEL SHAPED LIKE A HAND OR PALM LEAF OR SOMETHING, I SAW ONE OTHER EXAMPLE OF THAT STYLE BUT HAVE NOT SEEN ANY NEWER ONES USING THAT FORM. I ALSO WONDER IF WHALE BONE IS BEING CARVED TODAY FOR KAMPILIAN HANDLES AND FOR KERIS AS I HAVE SEEN QUITE A FEW VERY NICE HIGH END EXAMPLES IN RECENT YEARS BUT NOT BEING ABLE TO HANDLE ANY COULD NOT GUESS AGE.

14th February 2007, 07:30 PM	#21
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,294	Bill, possibly yours had two guards and one has gone missing. Barry, yes whalebone is still utilised; you see newer Bali wrankas carved from it.

14th February 2007, 07:42 PM	#22
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,209	Bill: I think your guard and handle have been reworked/replaced. The ensemble looks rather pristine and the carving on the handle lacks a little of the refinement and patina of older examples. From the general pattern, I would guess second half of 20th C, Maranao work from the Lake Lanao region, where many of the more recent Kampilan hilts have originated. Ian.

15th February 2007, 06:39 PM	#24
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	You say tomatoe, I say tomato

15th February 2007, 10:21 PM	#25
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	And, as per Dan Quaile " You say potato, and I say potatoe"

15th February 2007, 11:01 PM	#27
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	SO this UK guy comes to the USA. He asks an American farmer, What do you do with all your extra produce?" The farmer replied, "We eat all we can and what we can't eat, we can." The UK guy thought this was very funny and he returned home he told about the Ameican farmer in the Colonies, "They eat all they can and what they can't eat, they tin!"

16th February 2007, 11:43 AM	#29
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,209	Dan: I was thinking of your example a few days ago in relation to this thread. The rounded "curly" forms of decoration are relatively uncommon on kampilan and your example is unique in my experience -- definitely old (at least early 20th C) and well executed hilt and guard. In some ways the rounded curls remind me as much of vines and leaves as waves. The guard on yours does look bird-like. Perhaps an eagle or cockatoo. Like many of Cato's descriptions, one wonders where the term came from. He does not document his sources, and without that documentation one is left wondering if much of his information could be confirmed. Frustrating. Ian.

16th February 2007, 01:07 PM	#30
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	Any ideas about this one? Has it been highly modified, or was it born this way? Sometimes I wonder if pieces were worked on to sell to tourists or were they battle pieces that the owner just thought, "Hey, fix this grip so I can get a good hold on it and let me get back to fighting!" I got a kris around here somewhere..... Attached Images