New book: Arms and Armor from Iran

ariel · 19th September 2006, 02:52 AM

Just got it and just started reding. No opinion yet except that it has nice pictures and very weak binding: the book is so heavy that the binding pulled apart after 20 minutes.
Warning: read it only when it is flat on the table and do not keep it vertical!

Andrew · 19th September 2006, 04:56 AM

I'm really very excited about this book! From the reviews I've read, it promises to be a definitive work.

I'll be placing my order this week.

wolviex · 19th September 2006, 08:37 AM

I'm still trying to gather money for this book

Hope to get it in next 6 months

Ariel: what do you mean about your warning

B.I · 19th September 2006, 09:28 AM

hi michal,
i have also heard that the book is way too heavy for the binding, hence the warning.
i dont have it yet, and have asked for opinions from people that have and no one is willing to commit themselves.
ariel - read faster!!
i have no doubt the historical side will be well written.
what about the catalogued descriptions?
we know that museums sometimes use a lot of wishful thinking when it comes to dating. does the author lift the descriptions, or use his own opinion?
the latter is what we are all after in any new publication, but the former is what we normally end up with.

Andreas Volk · 19th September 2006, 04:27 PM

Dear fellow Enthusiasts!
I also received the book and worked through parts of it - it's a huge ammount of info and I'm quite busy at the moment.

First in regards to the binding:
Mine is still intact, and I didn't read it on a table as I dragged it arround with
me during a few days of business travel;
So ariel: I'd suggest that you contact the publisher. A book coming apart
after 20 minutes is totally unacceptable and I'd ask them for a replacement.
that is the least thing they should do (including postage).
If it helps you can use my statement here as a refference in any negotiation
- as my binding is still solid.

On the subject that this book was called a "definitive work", or that it is
regarded "definitive" by some of the readers:
I would call such statements "over excitement" by some individuals and it
makes me raise at least one eye brow

Don't get me wrong - it truly is a book that I'm excited about - at least in
regards to chapter 7 and 10 that I've read so far (and with my
limited knowledge of persian history I'd have better started with chapter 1)
But calling something "definitive" is out of place. No academic book will
ever be definitive - labeling it as such denies the progress of mankind.

Religious and holy text are regarded as "definite" or "definitive" by their
believers, academic works can be "ground breaking", "revealing", etc. -
but never definitive.

Just my 2 euro cents.

So I'll get back to chapter 1 now
kind regards

Andreas Volk

Flavio · 19th September 2006, 06:10 PM

WOW

i see the price on amazon and for sure is very expensive !!!!

wolviex · 19th September 2006, 06:20 PM

I hope it will be ok to post a link to official site of this impressive book where more info can be gathered:

http://www.arms-and-armor-from-iran.de/

Rivkin · 19th September 2006, 06:22 PM

Gentlemen,

I have not read a book yet, so here is my prediction:

a. It it probably going to be a definitive book on arms and armour, with great , well described examples.
b. I have yet to read a history book written by a persian that would not be dedicated to glorifying persian culture, persian tolerance and persian territorial claims (they usually claim Georgia, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Dagestan, Kurdistan and others to be 100% persian lands taken away by some colonizers), and so on, and so on. I am not going to argue these positions - it is not a history forum, just a matter of prediction.

So, my guess is 180 degrees from yours, B.I. - great catalogue of weapons but a persian book in all other aspects.

ariel · 19th September 2006, 07:40 PM

B.I. and Rivkin,

Let us reserve the judgements until we read it.
After all, as my wife said when she saw this huge volume " This guy must know a lot!"
Now, let's dig in and learn some new things, find novel insights, contradictions and just plain errors.
The rumors were floating for years, the promise to "explain it all" were made in advance and the only proper thing to do was to keep quiet and let the author do his job.
Now this book is out and in a public domain.
It is our responsibility to read it carefully before passing any judgement.
If it is good, let praise it.
If it is bad, let's critique it.
Enjoy the show!

tsubame1 · 19th September 2006, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flavio

WOW

i see the price on amazon and for sure is very expensive !!!!

Try asking directly Legat publisher. AFAIK is cheaper.

tsubame1 · 19th September 2006, 09:02 PM

@ Ariel. The copy I've handled for a while was rock solid binding.
You deserve a new copy from the publisher IMHO.
Don't let bad luck discourage you to appraise such a nice book.

@ Andreas : You're right about the word "definitive" but I think it has been used here with joyfully enphasis rather than to be taken literally.

tsubame1 · 19th September 2006, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rivkin

b. I have yet to read a history book written by a persian that would not be dedicated to glorifying persian culture, persian tolerance and persian territorial claims (they usually claim Georgia, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Dagestan, Kurdistan and others to be 100% persian lands taken away by some colonizers), and so on, and so on.

There is always a first time for everything and everybody.

wolviex · 19th September 2006, 09:47 PM

Can't tell anything before reading it, but I was waiting for this book as promising source of knowledge. Mr. Manoucher (the Author) contacted me some time ago in case of Polish bibliography, he is in every way Gentlemen and I remember him very positive. I know he had many lectures on Universities, and the book was prepared with help of many people from many countries (hope I didn't make mistake and my memory isn't fault in this matter) including Iran. I believe this is good piece of hard work and it will be on of the most important reference books on this matter through next few years. Despite some nuances and differences in point of look. In Poland it is said that 'one is not wrong who's done nothing'

(hope I make it clear in not my native language)
Regards!

Rick · 19th September 2006, 10:27 PM

I'm saddened to hear people making innuendos about a work of obvious dedication and passion .

Let us all come back and discuss the merits of this offering after we have read it for ourselves .

Rick

Mare Rosu · 19th September 2006, 11:24 PM

I agree with Mr. Rick, we should wait, sort of read before you speak.
This is a link to a lecture (video) about the book by the author.
I also ordered the book from the publisher in Germany.
I told the publisher to hurry the shipment as I needed to start my exercise program,

it is a 9 pound book.
Gene
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...03819897907514

P S this video is over 1 1/2 hours long

so it will take a while!

B.I · 19th September 2006, 11:45 PM

i made no innuendos, comments or judgements about this book. i look forward to reading it, just like anything else new on oriental arms. i only asked if the author used his own opinion to date pieces.
he has listed the inventories of 10 museums that have never been published before. even if the book turned out to be completely useless in text, it would be invaluable for this alone.
if i learn one new thing in a book, then the cover price is justified.
everyone looks for different things in a new publication. for me it is good pictures and a strong individual opinion. i was intrigued to see which stance the author took, whether he went through each piece and described and dated them, or just photographed and copied what he saw. i dont see this as pre-judging, more curious and impatient.

Rick · 19th September 2006, 11:59 PM

I didn't say that you did B.I.
I regret that you construed it as such .

ariel · 20th September 2006, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsubame1

@ Ariel. The copy I've handled for a while was rock solid binding.
You deserve a new copy from the publisher IMHO.
Don't let bad luck discourage you to appraise such a nice book.

@ Andreas : You're right about the word "definitive" but I think it has been used here with joyfully enphasis rather than to be taken literally.

As a matter of fact, I kind of like somewhat tattered books (just like "very used" swords and comfort food

)
I am not going to use this book as a "coffee table" one (or, at least, I hope not!

) , so some feeling of wiggly binding does not scare me. I just hope the pages do not start falling out. Then, it's bad

Mumtazb · 20th September 2006, 10:28 AM

Is the binding just a bit wiggly or has it actually pulled apart, as is the impression I got from your first post?

Either way I cannot imagine there are many faulty copies which have been sold.

The book is quality! The materials used are quality, the content, the pictures...and it actually presents a good year or 2 of reading for me, not that I'm a slow reader, just that I have little time on my hands these days.

I would recommend anybody who has an interest in Persian Arms and Armour to buy this book

Andrew · 20th September 2006, 04:04 PM

Hi Mumtaz. Great to see you here.

Andrew · 20th September 2006, 04:12 PM

Gentlemen:

As the saying goes, "there is an elephant standing in the room and I'm not going to ignore it."

The author of this book is well known to many of us. Likewise, some here have had prior disagreements with Manouchehr here and on SFI. He no longer posts here, and will be unable to personally respond to comments about his book.

Constructive and civil criticism of the book itself is welcome. However, uncivil, impolite or harsh criticism is not. Nor will personal attacks or editorial comments about the author be permitted. We have not tolerated this about other authors and books, and we will not start now.

We have had inter-fora issues in the past, and I am not interested in seeing them resumed.

Thank you for your anticipated cooperation.

Andrew
Vikingsword Staff

Flavio · 20th September 2006, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsubame1

Try asking directly Legat publisher. AFAIK is cheaper.

Thank you Tsubame, yes the price is more reasonable

Lee · 20th September 2006, 04:47 PM

Ordering directly from the publisher via the link above and paying with their linked PayPal option cost 177 euros ($230) including air frieght.

Mumtazb · 20th September 2006, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew

Hi Mumtaz. Great to see you here.

Thanks Andrew....good to be here!
I just saw the keris forum today so that's an added bonus to this site

Doug M · 20th September 2006, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew

Constructive and civil criticism of the book itself is welcome. However, uncivil, impolite or harsh criticism is not. Nor will personal attacks or editorial comments about the author be permitted. We have not tolerated this about other authors and books, and we will not start now.

Well said, Andrew. Thank you for making this clear from the position of the staff here.

Doug M · 20th September 2006, 06:03 PM

Hello,

I absolutely agree with Mumtazb: this book is of the highest quality with over eight years of research within it. Both the text and catalogue sections are excellent. The text is all academic, and there is an extensive bibliography for you, the interested party, to start your own research.

The same quality goes for the binding. What has been described as "weak binding" is certainly out of the ordinary. For my part, I have held the book vertically quite a bit, and the binding holds well. I suppose if the book is manipulated while held vertically, it could damage the spine, but that is the same for any large book. A book of this siaze, as suggested, is best enjoyed if it is placed horizontally on a flat surface. However, that has nothing to do with the quality of the book's content: it has plenty to do with common sense. Keep this in mind when looking at it.

If one is interested in Persian arms and armor, this is, quite seriously, the best book on the subject. And I would like to say something about "definitive" as it has been used. If one thinks of "definitive" as a static thing, a definition written in stone, then this book is not "definitive." But if one thinks of definitions as things that change, particularly in academics, then this text is "definitive" as a starting point. Manoucher will be the first to state this. Regardless of how one regards this book, it is a fantastic starting point for future research.

Sincerely,

Doug M

Doug M · 20th September 2006, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rivkin

Gentlemen,

I have not read a book yet, so here is my prediction:

a. It it probably going to be a definitive book on arms and armour, with great , well described examples.
b. I have yet to read a history book written by a persian that would not be dedicated to glorifying persian culture, persian tolerance and persian territorial claims (they usually claim Georgia, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Dagestan, Kurdistan and others to be 100% persian lands taken away by some colonizers), and so on, and so on. I am not going to argue these positions - it is not a history forum, just a matter of prediction.

So, my guess is 180 degrees from yours, B.I. - great catalogue of weapons but a persian book in all other aspects.

Not to start an argument, but this "prediction" has nothing to do with Arms and Armor from Iran. Any "prediction" is a gross generalization and appears to make an attempt at, somehow, attacking the author. I truly wonder what is the point of claiming that "I have yet to read a history book written by a persian that would not be dedicated to glorifying persian culture, persian tolerance and persian territorial claims."

It is best for readers to ignore the "predicted" association of "a persian book in all other aspects" and read the text. This is not a time to "enjoy the show"--whatever that means--but a time to review what has been written and comment on it in a respectful manner.

Sincerely,

Doug M

Andrew · 21st September 2006, 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug M

Hello,

I absolutely agree with Mumtazb: this book is of the highest quality with over eight years of research within it. Both the text and catalogue sections are excellent. The text is all academic, and there is an extensive bibliography for you, the interested party, to start your own research.

The same quality goes for the binding. What has been described as "weak binding" is certainly out of the ordinary. For my part, I have held the book vertically quite a bit, and the binding holds well. I suppose if the book is manipulated while held vertically, it could damage the spine, but that is the same for any large book. A book of this siaze, as suggested, is best enjoyed if it is placed horizontally on a flat surface. However, that has nothing to do with the quality of the book's content: it has plenty to do with common sense. Keep this in mind when looking at it.

If one is interested in Persian arms and armor, this is, quite seriously, the best book on the subject. And I would like to say something about "definitive" as it has been used. If one thinks of "definitive" as a static thing, a definition written in stone, then this book is not "definitive." But if one thinks of definitions as things that change, particularly in academics, then this text is "definitive" as a starting point. Manoucher will be the first to state this. Regardless of how one regards this book, it is a fantastic starting point for future research.

Sincerely,

Doug M

Hi Doug, good to see you here as well.

Didn't you and Mumtaz help edit the book? Personally, I'd love to hear more about that process and a "behind the scenes" perspective once I've had the chance to look it over. Did you edit only the text portion, or did you get the opportunity to participate in the photos and captions as well?

Best,
Andrew

Lee · 21st September 2006, 01:14 PM

Read for Kicks

Mark · 21st September 2006, 04:02 PM

Yeesh. It goes to show that if someone wants to be critical, they don't bother much with the details.

I am not trying to belittle Raymond Sauvage, but to tear down a work by English-speaking authors by referral to Norwegian-language articles, one of which was published after the book in question, is just ridiculous. Even more so as he wrote, when asked to help locate copies of the articles, that "I think you guys sholdn't put to much energy getting those two articles. One of them is obut the theory of reconstruction versus imitations, the other one is a description of the Norvegian-Rusian sword project." How can it be that the articles he uses in his critique are are ones people "souldn't put much energy into getting?" Then he characterizes the most up-to-date English work (six years old by then) as "out of date."

I guess I am being critical of Sauvage, but that kind of gratuitous, at-any-cost criticism just burns me up.

I am sure that anyone reading any of the works he cited could come up with equally severe, and equally weak, criticsim. It is highly unfair, and small-minded, IMO. And as an aside, I'm not aware that Sauvage has ever written a single word on the subject to contribute to the academic literature. Then again, most literary critics can't write (except a newspaper column) - that's why they are critics and not authors.

I'm a big fan of the philosophy that if you can't walk the walk, don't talk the talk.

As for Manoucherer, I don't think anyone is accusing him of being less than thorough and comprehensive. Still, it won't surprise me if some finds some fault to harp on. As we say in the legal business, "if the facts are against you, argue the law; if the law is against you, argue the facts; and if both are against you, just argue."

I must stop, as I am in grave danger of hijacking the thread.

19th September 2006, 02:52 AM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	New book: Arms and Armor from Iran Just got it and just started reding. No opinion yet except that it has nice pictures and very weak binding: the book is so heavy that the binding pulled apart after 20 minutes. Warning: read it only when it is flat on the table and do not keep it vertical!

19th September 2006, 04:27 PM	#5
Andreas Volk Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: South of Germany Posts: 8	Arms and Armor from Iran - a first impression Dear fellow Enthusiasts! I also received the book and worked through parts of it - it's a huge ammount of info and I'm quite busy at the moment. First in regards to the binding: Mine is still intact, and I didn't read it on a table as I dragged it arround with me during a few days of business travel; So ariel: I'd suggest that you contact the publisher. A book coming apart after 20 minutes is totally unacceptable and I'd ask them for a replacement. that is the least thing they should do (including postage). If it helps you can use my statement here as a refference in any negotiation - as my binding is still solid. On the subject that this book was called a "definitive work", or that it is regarded "definitive" by some of the readers: I would call such statements "over excitement" by some individuals and it makes me raise at least one eye brow Don't get me wrong - it truly is a book that I'm excited about - at least in regards to chapter 7 and 10 that I've read so far (and with my limited knowledge of persian history I'd have better started with chapter 1) But calling something "definitive" is out of place. No academic book will ever be definitive - labeling it as such denies the progress of mankind. Religious and holy text are regarded as "definite" or "definitive" by their believers, academic works can be "ground breaking", "revealing", etc. - but never definitive. Just my 2 euro cents. So I'll get back to chapter 1 now kind regards Andreas Volk

19th September 2006, 11:24 PM	#15
Mare Rosu Deceased Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: USA, DEEP SOUTH, GEORGIA, Y'all hear? Posts: 121	Book I agree with Mr. Rick, we should wait, sort of read before you speak. This is a link to a lecture (video) about the book by the author. I also ordered the book from the publisher in Germany. I told the publisher to hurry the shipment as I needed to start my exercise program, it is a 9 pound book. Gene http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...03819897907514 P S this video is over 1 1/2 hours long so it will take a while! Last edited by Mare Rosu; 19th September 2006 at 11:41 PM.

19th September 2006, 04:56 AM	#2
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	I'm really very excited about this book! From the reviews I've read, it promises to be a definitive work. I'll be placing my order this week.

19th September 2006, 08:37 AM	#3
wolviex Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poland, Krakow Posts: 418	I'm still trying to gather money for this book Hope to get it in next 6 months Ariel: what do you mean about your warning

19th September 2006, 09:28 AM	#4
B.I Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 485	hi michal, i have also heard that the book is way too heavy for the binding, hence the warning. i dont have it yet, and have asked for opinions from people that have and no one is willing to commit themselves. ariel - read faster!! i have no doubt the historical side will be well written. what about the catalogued descriptions? we know that museums sometimes use a lot of wishful thinking when it comes to dating. does the author lift the descriptions, or use his own opinion? the latter is what we are all after in any new publication, but the former is what we normally end up with.

19th September 2006, 06:10 PM	#6
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	WOW i see the price on amazon and for sure is very expensive !!!!

19th September 2006, 06:20 PM	#7
wolviex Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poland, Krakow Posts: 418	I hope it will be ok to post a link to official site of this impressive book where more info can be gathered: http://www.arms-and-armor-from-iran.de/

19th September 2006, 06:22 PM	#8
Rivkin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 655	Gentlemen, I have not read a book yet, so here is my prediction: a. It it probably going to be a definitive book on arms and armour, with great , well described examples. b. I have yet to read a history book written by a persian that would not be dedicated to glorifying persian culture, persian tolerance and persian territorial claims (they usually claim Georgia, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Dagestan, Kurdistan and others to be 100% persian lands taken away by some colonizers), and so on, and so on. I am not going to argue these positions - it is not a history forum, just a matter of prediction. So, my guess is 180 degrees from yours, B.I. - great catalogue of weapons but a persian book in all other aspects.

19th September 2006, 07:40 PM	#9
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	B.I. and Rivkin, Let us reserve the judgements until we read it. After all, as my wife said when she saw this huge volume " This guy must know a lot!" Now, let's dig in and learn some new things, find novel insights, contradictions and just plain errors. The rumors were floating for years, the promise to "explain it all" were made in advance and the only proper thing to do was to keep quiet and let the author do his job. Now this book is out and in a public domain. It is our responsibility to read it carefully before passing any judgement. If it is good, let praise it. If it is bad, let's critique it. Enjoy the show!

19th September 2006, 09:02 PM	#11
tsubame1 Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Magenta, Northern Italy Posts: 123	@ Ariel. The copy I've handled for a while was rock solid binding. You deserve a new copy from the publisher IMHO. Don't let bad luck discourage you to appraise such a nice book. @ Andreas : You're right about the word "definitive" but I think it has been used here with joyfully enphasis rather than to be taken literally.

19th September 2006, 09:47 PM	#13
wolviex Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poland, Krakow Posts: 418	Can't tell anything before reading it, but I was waiting for this book as promising source of knowledge. Mr. Manoucher (the Author) contacted me some time ago in case of Polish bibliography, he is in every way Gentlemen and I remember him very positive. I know he had many lectures on Universities, and the book was prepared with help of many people from many countries (hope I didn't make mistake and my memory isn't fault in this matter) including Iran. I believe this is good piece of hard work and it will be on of the most important reference books on this matter through next few years. Despite some nuances and differences in point of look. In Poland it is said that 'one is not wrong who's done nothing' (hope I make it clear in not my native language) Regards!

19th September 2006, 10:27 PM	#14
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	I'm saddened to hear people making innuendos about a work of obvious dedication and passion . Let us all come back and discuss the merits of this offering after we have read it for ourselves . Rick

19th September 2006, 11:45 PM	#16
B.I Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 485	i made no innuendos, comments or judgements about this book. i look forward to reading it, just like anything else new on oriental arms. i only asked if the author used his own opinion to date pieces. he has listed the inventories of 10 museums that have never been published before. even if the book turned out to be completely useless in text, it would be invaluable for this alone. if i learn one new thing in a book, then the cover price is justified. everyone looks for different things in a new publication. for me it is good pictures and a strong individual opinion. i was intrigued to see which stance the author took, whether he went through each piece and described and dated them, or just photographed and copied what he saw. i dont see this as pre-judging, more curious and impatient.

19th September 2006, 11:59 PM	#17
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	I didn't say that you did B.I. I regret that you construed it as such .

20th September 2006, 10:28 AM	#19
Mumtazb Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 3	Is the binding just a bit wiggly or has it actually pulled apart, as is the impression I got from your first post? Either way I cannot imagine there are many faulty copies which have been sold. The book is quality! The materials used are quality, the content, the pictures...and it actually presents a good year or 2 of reading for me, not that I'm a slow reader, just that I have little time on my hands these days. I would recommend anybody who has an interest in Persian Arms and Armour to buy this book

20th September 2006, 04:04 PM	#20
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Hi Mumtaz. Great to see you here.

20th September 2006, 04:12 PM	#21
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Gentlemen: As the saying goes, "there is an elephant standing in the room and I'm not going to ignore it." The author of this book is well known to many of us. Likewise, some here have had prior disagreements with Manouchehr here and on SFI. He no longer posts here, and will be unable to personally respond to comments about his book. Constructive and civil criticism of the book itself is welcome. However, uncivil, impolite or harsh criticism is not. Nor will personal attacks or editorial comments about the author be permitted. We have not tolerated this about other authors and books, and we will not start now. We have had inter-fora issues in the past, and I am not interested in seeing them resumed. Thank you for your anticipated cooperation. Andrew Vikingsword Staff

20th September 2006, 04:47 PM	#23
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 914	Ordering directly from the publisher via the link above and paying with their linked PayPal option cost 177 euros ($230) including air frieght.

20th September 2006, 06:03 PM	#26
Doug M Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 10	Hello, I absolutely agree with Mumtazb: this book is of the highest quality with over eight years of research within it. Both the text and catalogue sections are excellent. The text is all academic, and there is an extensive bibliography for you, the interested party, to start your own research. The same quality goes for the binding. What has been described as "weak binding" is certainly out of the ordinary. For my part, I have held the book vertically quite a bit, and the binding holds well. I suppose if the book is manipulated while held vertically, it could damage the spine, but that is the same for any large book. A book of this siaze, as suggested, is best enjoyed if it is placed horizontally on a flat surface. However, that has nothing to do with the quality of the book's content: it has plenty to do with common sense. Keep this in mind when looking at it. If one is interested in Persian arms and armor, this is, quite seriously, the best book on the subject. And I would like to say something about "definitive" as it has been used. If one thinks of "definitive" as a static thing, a definition written in stone, then this book is not "definitive." But if one thinks of definitions as things that change, particularly in academics, then this text is "definitive" as a starting point. Manoucher will be the first to state this. Regardless of how one regards this book, it is a fantastic starting point for future research. Sincerely, Doug M

21st September 2006, 01:14 PM	#29
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 914	Read for Kicks

21st September 2006, 04:02 PM	#30
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	Yeesh. It goes to show that if someone wants to be critical, they don't bother much with the details. I am not trying to belittle Raymond Sauvage, but to tear down a work by English-speaking authors by referral to Norwegian-language articles, one of which was published after the book in question, is just ridiculous. Even more so as he wrote, when asked to help locate copies of the articles, that "I think you guys sholdn't put to much energy getting those two articles. One of them is obut the theory of reconstruction versus imitations, the other one is a description of the Norvegian-Rusian sword project." How can it be that the articles he uses in his critique are are ones people "souldn't put much energy into getting?" Then he characterizes the most up-to-date English work (six years old by then) as "out of date." I guess I am being critical of Sauvage, but that kind of gratuitous, at-any-cost criticism just burns me up. I am sure that anyone reading any of the works he cited could come up with equally severe, and equally weak, criticsim. It is highly unfair, and small-minded, IMO. And as an aside, I'm not aware that Sauvage has ever written a single word on the subject to contribute to the academic literature. Then again, most literary critics can't write (except a newspaper column) - that's why they are critics and not authors. I'm a big fan of the philosophy that if you can't walk the walk, don't talk the talk. As for Manoucherer, I don't think anyone is accusing him of being less than thorough and comprehensive. Still, it won't surprise me if some finds some fault to harp on. As we say in the legal business, "if the facts are against you, argue the law; if the law is against you, argue the facts; and if both are against you, just argue." I must stop, as I am in grave danger of hijacking the thread.