INDIAN BUCKLER SHIELD

BANDOOK · 21st October 2015, 10:21 AM

AN INDIAN BUCKLER SHIELD
LATE 18 TH CENTURY ,MOST LIKELY FROM PUNJAB
27 CMS ACROSS

Miguel · 22nd October 2015, 09:43 PM

Nice Buckler, Is it brass or steel my eyes are not to good at the moment and shall you clean it.
Regards Miguel

Miguel · 23rd October 2015, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BANDOOK

AN INDIAN BUCKLER SHIELD
LATE 18 TH CENTURY ,MOST LIKELY FROM PUNJAB
27 CMS ACROSS

Hi Bandook, another question if you don't mind, how do you tell the age of these shields? The reason for asking is that I have a small collection of them in different sizes, all brass and highly decorated as yours is which was my reason for acquiring them but I have always wondered about their age and what they were used for ie decoration, ceremonial occasions or defence in battle.
Regards
Miguel

BANDOOK · 24th October 2015, 10:10 AM

Hi Miguel
I am not sure about the metal as its aged quiet a lot,also decoration has faded in time,i would assume late 18 century to mid 19 century as what I have seen images on the web
These were used for parrying at close combat and basically to protect ones fingers and hands as they are not very big like their large cousins the dhal shields.There are also reproductions which are made of brass but they are in good condition and retain their colours.
SOME OTHER MEMBERS COULD TELL US MORE
Regards Rajesh

rickystl · 24th October 2015, 05:48 PM

Hi Rajesh!!
Nice looking Buckler. And still has it's leather intact. Nice.
Rick.

BANDOOK · 25th October 2015, 10:12 AM

THANKS RICK GOT THIS REALLY CHEAP AS THE AUCION HOUSE HAD LISTED IT AS [REPLICA ROMAN SHIELD,VICTORAIN???],HAHA SO NOT MANY PEOPLE KNEW ,POOR SELLER DID NOT GETS ITS WORTH,CHEERS

rickystl · 25th October 2015, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BANDOOK

THANKS RICK GOT THIS REALLY CHEAP AS THE AUCION HOUSE HAD LISTED IT AS [REPLICA ROMAN SHIELD,VICTORAIN???],HAHA SO NOT MANY PEOPLE KNEW ,POOR SELLER DID NOT GETS ITS WORTH,CHEERS

LOL!!!! Ah great!! Congratulations. Usually the only people bidding on Ethno arms know what it is and about what it's worth. But once in a great while,

Rick.

Miguel · 25th October 2015, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BANDOOK

Hi Miguel
I am not sure about the metal as its aged quiet a lot,also decoration has faded in time,i would assume late 18 century to mid 19 century as what I have seen images on the web
These were used for parrying at close combat and basically to protect ones fingers and hands as they are not very big like their large cousins the dhal shields.There are also reproductions which are made of brass but they are in good condition and retain their colours.
SOME OTHER MEMBERS COULD TELL US MORE
Regards Rajesh

Hi Rajesh, Thanks for your reply. It would be nice if it would clean as the decoration looks really good. I had a feeling that the brass ones were possibly reproductions and also the larger ones could be just for parade use as the decoration looks far to good and must have taken quite some time to do for it to be destroyed in battle but as you say some other members could tell us more.
Regards
Miguel

Roland_M · 28th October 2015, 05:03 PM

Hello Rajesh,

if you are unsure about the metal, try a magnet. Or you can try metal polish on the inside.

A few days ago I won an Indian Dhal shield, decorated with a very nice hunting scene. The description claimed brass but it is steel with fire-gilding

.

Roland

kahnjar1 · 28th October 2015, 07:54 PM

I do not for one moment suggest that the age of these is anything other than stated by Members above, but I do note that it would appear that India is becoming the "new China" in terms of copying and aging of items.
One only needs to look at a well known site to see the large range of knives, flasks and other items being offered as old/antique.
I have discussed this issue with a recently arrived Indian immigrant, knowledgeable in these things, and his advice to me was "don't unless you have watertight provenance", when I asked about buying from there.
Stu

BANDOOK · 29th October 2015, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roland_M

Hello Rajesh,

if you are unsure about the metal, try a magnet. Or you can try metal polish on the inside.

A few days ago I won an Indian Dhal shield, decorated with a very nice hunting scene. The description claimed brass but it is steel with fire-gilding

.

Roland

THANKS ROLAND NOTED,MANY THANKS

TCole · 3rd March 2016, 05:16 AM

You refer to the fading color and obvious use as an indication of age? Is that a reliable way to date things? I'm curious and very, very new at this as well. My interest in these things is very recent.

Jens Nordlunde · 3rd March 2016, 03:42 PM

Rajesh, have you cleaned the shield by now, if yes - what does it look like?

BANDOOK · 7th March 2016, 11:57 AM

hi jens
not yet cleaned it,am scared will take the patina,have got another shield will post pictures here soon,regards rajesh

BANDOOK · 8th March 2016, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Rajesh, have you cleaned the shield by now, if yes - what does it look like?

DEAR JENS
HERE IS ANOTHER BUCKLER I WON RECENTLY AT AUCTION FROM UNITED KINGDOM
14.5" ACROSS

TCole · 15th March 2016, 02:32 AM

and how old is this shield?

TCole · 15th March 2016, 04:26 AM

And how old and from where in India do you reckon this shield is? THanks..

BANDOOK · 15th March 2016, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TCole

and how old is this shield?

GREETINGS TCOLE
I HAVE GOOD INFORMATION ON THESE SHIELDS FROM ,AN EXPERT ON THIS SUBJECT ,HERE IS WHAT HE SAYS,REGARDS RAJESH

Hi Rajesh,
I have attached 2 shields that you own, as both are distinctly related. Both are made of a brass alloy and the decoration was (in the late 19thC) known as lac-coloured ware, a style used to imitate an enamel effect. The style of decoration used on these shields is quite late in origin, and was applied to alloys - some brass and some with a more tinned composition. The decoration is coloured lac that is heated and placed into carved or chased designs. This style of decoration is not known on anything prior to the 19thC, and I would say the work originates from the latter part of the 19thC, during the period of the Durbars. Artisans from all over India had a resurgence of business as they had the chance to not only compete for title and prizes, but also to sell their wares in bulk.The metalwork category was sub-divided into more specific groupings, one of which was 'tinned, painted and lac-coloured wares' - basically processes that mimicked enameling. The main centres of this were Moradabad, Jaipur, Peshawar and Kashmir.

There are some descriptive indicators that help steer towards a more specific regions on a particular design, but in general it is very hard to distinguish which centre a piece was made. None were signed and each produced wares to compete against each other, resulting in similarities in style.

Most dealers simply (and wrongly) call the type of work on these shields as from Benares, but Benares was more known for enamel work which this tries to simulate. Benares was known for a strong use of red and many shields (like one of yours) uses a predominately red palette.

These shields were made during a time outside of a martial use, and they were vessels to apply the artisans skills onto. The same work can be found on trays, urns and hooker bases.

Your shields are nice pieces and I would strongly advise they are not cleaned. The alloy will simply shine with any chemical cleaner and all evidence of age will be lost. I would simply rub in renaissance wax with a soft cloth which will not remove the patina and will preserve the surface well (and give a little sheen to it)

I hope this has been of some help.

Best

Mercenary · 16th March 2016, 01:53 PM

I think all of such shields are the martial art items of 20th century with new decoration...

BANDOOK · 17th March 2016, 12:34 PM

NICE SHIELDS MERCENARY ,YOUR SHIELDS SHOW NICE WEAR N TARE,THANKS FOR POSTING
MORE MEMBERS WILL COMMENT
REGARDS

BANDOOK · 17th March 2016, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miguel

Hi Rajesh, Thanks for your reply. It would be nice if it would clean as the decoration looks really good. I had a feeling that the brass ones were possibly reproductions and also the larger ones could be just for parade use as the decoration looks far to good and must have taken quite some time to do for it to be destroyed in battle but as you say some other members could tell us more.
Regards
Miguel

HI MIGUEL
PLEASE CAN YOU PUT UP PICTURES OF YOUR BUCKLER SHIELDS,AM CURIOUS TO SEE THE DIFFERENT SIZES U HAVE,REGARDS RAJESH

TCole · 19th March 2016, 02:21 AM

Rajesh.. THANK YOU! Much appreciated. I wonder if you know some books, perhaps books printed in India(?) that will have this information that you have carefully written for us.

I want to thank you for being so specific.

As per shields from Benares with red enamel… they are older than these we see here from both Mercenary and Bandook?

What were the primary designs of those shields with enamel coming from Benares?

I am curious. Obviously!

21st October 2015, 10:21 AM	#1
BANDOOK Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: AUCKLAND,NEW ZEALAND Posts: 624	INDIAN BUCKLER SHIELD AN INDIAN BUCKLER SHIELD LATE 18 TH CENTURY ,MOST LIKELY FROM PUNJAB 27 CMS ACROSS Attached Images

28th October 2015, 07:54 PM	#10
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,741	How old are these? I do not for one moment suggest that the age of these is anything other than stated by Members above, but I do note that it would appear that India is becoming the "new China" in terms of copying and aging of items. One only needs to look at a well known site to see the large range of knives, flasks and other items being offered as old/antique. I have discussed this issue with a recently arrived Indian immigrant, knowledgeable in these things, and his advice to me was "don't unless you have watertight provenance", when I asked about buying from there. Stu

15th March 2016, 04:26 AM	#17
TCole Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 16	Indian Buckler shield And how old and from where in India do you reckon this shield is? THanks..

16th March 2016, 01:53 PM	#19
Mercenary Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 421	I think all of such shields are the martial art items of 20th century with new decoration... Attached Images

19th March 2016, 02:21 AM	#22
TCole Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 16	for Rajesh... Rajesh.. THANK YOU! Much appreciated. I wonder if you know some books, perhaps books printed in India(?) that will have this information that you have carefully written for us. I want to thank you for being so specific. As per shields from Benares with red enamel… they are older than these we see here from both Mercenary and Bandook? What were the primary designs of those shields with enamel coming from Benares? I am curious. Obviously!

22nd October 2015, 09:43 PM	#2
Miguel Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 584	Nice Buckler, Is it brass or steel my eyes are not to good at the moment and shall you clean it. Regards Miguel

24th October 2015, 10:10 AM	#4
BANDOOK Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: AUCKLAND,NEW ZEALAND Posts: 624	Hi Miguel I am not sure about the metal as its aged quiet a lot,also decoration has faded in time,i would assume late 18 century to mid 19 century as what I have seen images on the web These were used for parrying at close combat and basically to protect ones fingers and hands as they are not very big like their large cousins the dhal shields.There are also reproductions which are made of brass but they are in good condition and retain their colours. SOME OTHER MEMBERS COULD TELL US MORE Regards Rajesh

24th October 2015, 05:48 PM	#5
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	Hi Rajesh!! Nice looking Buckler. And still has it's leather intact. Nice. Rick.

25th October 2015, 10:12 AM	#6
BANDOOK Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: AUCKLAND,NEW ZEALAND Posts: 624	THANKS RICK GOT THIS REALLY CHEAP AS THE AUCION HOUSE HAD LISTED IT AS [REPLICA ROMAN SHIELD,VICTORAIN???],HAHA SO NOT MANY PEOPLE KNEW ,POOR SELLER DID NOT GETS ITS WORTH,CHEERS

28th October 2015, 05:03 PM	#9
Roland_M Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Germany Posts: 525	Hello Rajesh, if you are unsure about the metal, try a magnet. Or you can try metal polish on the inside. A few days ago I won an Indian Dhal shield, decorated with a very nice hunting scene. The description claimed brass but it is steel with fire-gilding . Roland

3rd March 2016, 05:16 AM	#12
TCole Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 16	You refer to the fading color and obvious use as an indication of age? Is that a reliable way to date things? I'm curious and very, very new at this as well. My interest in these things is very recent.

3rd March 2016, 03:42 PM	#13
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Rajesh, have you cleaned the shield by now, if yes - what does it look like?

7th March 2016, 11:57 AM	#14
BANDOOK Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: AUCKLAND,NEW ZEALAND Posts: 624	hi jens not yet cleaned it,am scared will take the patina,have got another shield will post pictures here soon,regards rajesh

15th March 2016, 02:32 AM	#16
TCole Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 16	and how old is this shield?

17th March 2016, 12:34 PM	#20
BANDOOK Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: AUCKLAND,NEW ZEALAND Posts: 624	NICE SHIELDS MERCENARY ,YOUR SHIELDS SHOW NICE WEAR N TARE,THANKS FOR POSTING MORE MEMBERS WILL COMMENT REGARDS