My new keris

Sajen · 27th February 2009, 09:44 PM

Hello,
here the pictures from Java from my new acquisition. It's still in Indonesia because it shall get a warangan over there.
Comments are welcome.
Regards,
sajen

Sajen · 27th February 2009, 09:49 PM

Some more pictures!

David · 27th February 2009, 10:02 PM

Very nice. I look forward to seeing photos once it is washed and stained. Love the pendok on this sheath.

Marcokeris · 27th February 2009, 10:22 PM

From the pics the work done on the old hit material is , without doubt, absolutely wonderful !!!

David · 27th February 2009, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcokeris

From the pics the work done on the old hit material is , without doubt, absolutely wonderful !!!

I agree. I don't think that this fossilized elephant molar material is particularly easy to carve. Often the carvings with this material are pretty basic. They did some nice detailing on this one.

kai · 27th February 2009, 11:56 PM

Congrats, nice Palembang combo!

This Sumatran gonjo iras blade certainly deserves a decent stain.

Regards,
Kai

Sajen · 28th February 2009, 03:27 AM

Thank's for the comments!

Sajen · 28th February 2009, 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Congrats, nice Palembang combo!

This Sumatran gonjo iras blade certainly deserves a decent stain.

Regards,
Kai

Hello Kai,
thank you, but I think that this is a Minangkabau keris, the pendok is typical for and also the hilt. Don't let irritate by the warangka, you can found this form also in Minangkabau area.
Regards,
sajen

Sajen · 28th February 2009, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcokeris

From the pics the work done on the old hit material is , without doubt, absolutely wonderful !!!

Hi Marco and also David,
agree complete with you. I am also surprised when I see first time good pictures from my friend in Indonesia!
Here the link from e-bay where you can't see this work:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=140301046376
Regards,
sajen

Sajen · 8th March 2009, 09:47 PM

Hello all,
here the first pictures from Indonesia after warangan. They have done a good job.
Regards,
sajen

Henk · 8th March 2009, 10:04 PM

Detlef,

That looks very good indeed! I only wonder why the pesi wasn't cleaned and stained completely as usually is done.

kulbuntet · 8th March 2009, 10:15 PM

Hi Detlef,

Same question come up in my head... about the peksi. For the rest nice wash.

regards Michel

Sajen · 9th March 2009, 05:16 AM

Hello Henk and Michel,
I think that he hold the keris by warangan at the peksi. I have seen this when someone stained a blade. This don't will be a problem, when I received the keris I will clean the peksi in lemon-acid.
Regards,
Detlef

Sajen · 9th March 2009, 07:35 PM

Hello,
I get now the information why the peksi not cleaned ans stained. The handle have been so hard fixed to the peksi that the warangan process have been done with the handle and the handle wrapped with plasticfilm. Later it become more and more loose so that he can open it but too late fore the staining. He have been afraid to destroy the handle. But like I write before, it don't will be a problem to clean the peksi later.
Here a picture from the keris now.
Detlef

David · 9th March 2009, 08:24 PM

Wow Sajen, that's really pretty. I don't think it's a big deal that the pesi didn't receive staining, but i would make sure that all the rust is removed.
Enjoy your new baby.

asomotif · 10th March 2009, 12:50 AM

I am not a big fan of fossil mortar, but this one is definately one of the exceptions.

Very nice handle, and of course a great keris all together.

Love the pendok and the matching selut.

Gratuliere !

Willem

kai · 10th March 2009, 02:06 AM

Hello Sajen,

I'm glad that the blade came out as nice as expected!

Quote:

I think that this is a Minangkabau keris, the pendok is typical for and also the hilt. Don't let irritate by the warangka, you can found this form also in Minangkabau area.

Since the Minang Kabau were politically and economically well connected with Palembang / eastern Sumatra, pieces from area do pop up on the other side of the Sumatran mountain range.

I agree that we might be looking at mixed influences here:
This hilt does look Minang although most molar hilts seem to come from eastern Sumatra. The pendok type seems to show up all over Sumatra - I'm not sure this can be positively attributed to the MK.

The cross-piece does seem to be Palembang to me though (judging from the carving flow; while there's a lot of variety in shapes I also haven't seen a well-provenanced Minang cross-piece with rudder).

The blade seems more likely East Sumatran to me: bold pamor, shape, tiny greneng, and gonjo iras.

If I had to guess, I'd posit that this keris originated in Palembang and got partially refitted by a Minang owner later on.

Regards,
Kai

Sajen · 11th March 2009, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Wow Sajen, that's really pretty. I don't think it's a big deal that the pesi didn't receive staining, but i would make sure that all the rust is removed.
Enjoy your new baby.

Thank you David,
you can be sure that I will enjoy my baby!

The rust I will remove, that don't will be a big problem.
Regards,
sajen

Sajen · 11th March 2009, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif

I am not a big fan of fossil mortar, but this one is definately one of the exceptions.

Very nice handle, and of course a great keris all together.

Love the pendok and the matching selut.

Gratuliere !

Willem

Thank's Willem,
it's the same to me, the most molar handles not very fine and crude carved.

All the best to you,
Detlef

Sajen · 11th March 2009, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Sajen,

I'm glad that the blade came out as nice as expected!

Since the Minang Kabau were politically and economically well connected with Palembang / eastern Sumatra, pieces from area do pop up on the other side of the Sumatran mountain range.

I agree that we might be looking at mixed influences here:
This hilt does look Minang although most molar hilts seem to come from eastern Sumatra. The pendok type seems to show up all over Sumatra - I'm not sure this can be positively attributed to the MK.

The cross-piece does seem to be Palembang to me though (judging from the carving flow; while there's a lot of variety in shapes I also haven't seen a well-provenanced Minang cross-piece with rudder).

The blade seems more likely East Sumatran to me: bold pamor, shape, tiny greneng, and gonjo iras.

If I had to guess, I'd posit that this keris originated in Palembang and got partially refitted by a Minang owner later on.

Regards,
Kai

Hello Kai,

you might be right that that we can see by this keris a mixed influence from two regions of Sumatra. The blade and also the wrangka shows definitely Palembang influence but I think that the pendok shows Minang character. I think that the two "horns" at the end are signs of Minagkabau influence. Also the design on the pendok is seen in Minang erea. For comparison two pictures from a Minangkabau house and the door of the same house.

Regards,
Detlef

Jussi M. · 22nd February 2011, 06:55 PM

And up for a job well done!

Sajen · 22nd February 2011, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jussi M.

And up for a job well done!

Thank in the name of the person who have done the staining in Indonesia/Java!

VANDOO · 24th February 2011, 01:59 AM

THE FOSSIL MOLAR CAN BE BRITTLE AND SOME IS MORE UNSTABLE THAN OTHERS MAKEING IT RISKY TO WORK. AS A RESULT MOST CARVING IS USUALLY VERY SIMPLE.
SOMEONE WENT THE EXTRA MILE ON THIS AS ITS THE BEST CARVING I HAVE SEEN USING THIS MATERIAL.
A VERY NICE KERIS BE CAREFUL WITH IT TO AVOID SHEDING TEARS

Sajen · 24th February 2011, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANDOO

THE FOSSIL MOLAR CAN BE BRITTLE AND SOME IS MORE UNSTABLE THAN OTHERS MAKEING IT RISKY TO WORK. AS A RESULT MOST CARVING IS USUALLY VERY SIMPLE.
SOMEONE WENT THE EXTRA MILE ON THIS AS ITS THE BEST CARVING I HAVE SEEN USING THIS MATERIAL.
A VERY NICE KERIS BE CAREFUL WITH IT TO AVOID SHEDING TEARS

Hi Barry,

I know how easy this material can get broken and I am very careful with this keris!

Regards,

Detlef

A. G. Maisey · 28th February 2011, 08:13 AM

Interesting.

Battara · 28th February 2011, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANDOO

THE FOSSIL MOLAR CAN BE BRITTLE AND SOME IS MORE UNSTABLE THAN OTHERS MAKEING IT RISKY TO WORK. AS A RESULT MOST CARVING IS USUALLY VERY SIMPLE.
SOMEONE WENT THE EXTRA MILE ON THIS AS ITS THE BEST CARVING I HAVE SEEN USING THIS MATERIAL.
A VERY NICE KERIS BE CAREFUL WITH IT TO AVOID SHEDING TEARS

Oh I agree with you Barry. I have not carved but have worked with the stuff - crazy brittle and even crumbly.

Yet this is great delicate carving work.

For me this just begs the question - what are the talismanic properties of this material and where can I find literature on it?

DaveS · 1st March 2011, 04:25 AM

Jose: I read somewhere in one of the kris books that in the "old days" molar
tooth was thought to be an antidote to poisons, especially in the middle
eastern Islamic countries. It also was a trade item coming from Russian
Siberia. Modern knifemakers here in the U.S are also starting to use it on
their custom knife handles after it is stabilized. Don't know how it would hold
up under hunting conditions I wonder if Alan knows more about this material.
Dave.

Battara · 1st March 2011, 04:55 AM

My understanding is that it also protected the wearer because it was made of "dragon's tooth".

A. G. Maisey · 1st March 2011, 07:57 AM

No, sorry, I know of no myths nor beliefs of Javanese or Balinese origin that are associated with this material.

The oldest hilt of this material of which I am aware is the one in the Radya Pustaka Museum in Solo.

Scroll about three-quarters down the page:-

http://www.kerisattosanaji.com/radyapustaka.html

David · 1st March 2011, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

The oldest hilt of this material of which I am aware is the one in the Radya Pustaka Museum in Solo.

Is there an indication approximately how old this hilt in the museum is?

27th February 2009, 09:44 PM	#1
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,781	My new keris Hello, here the pictures from Java from my new acquisition. It's still in Indonesia because it shall get a warangan over there. Comments are welcome. Regards, sajen Attached Images

27th February 2009, 09:49 PM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,781	Some more pictures! Attached Images

8th March 2009, 09:47 PM	#10
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,781	Hello all, here the first pictures from Indonesia after warangan. They have done a good job. Regards, sajen Attached Images

9th March 2009, 07:35 PM	#14
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,781	Hello, I get now the information why the peksi not cleaned ans stained. The handle have been so hard fixed to the peksi that the warangan process have been done with the handle and the handle wrapped with plasticfilm. Later it become more and more loose so that he can open it but too late fore the staining. He have been afraid to destroy the handle. But like I write before, it don't will be a problem to clean the peksi later. Here a picture from the keris now. Detlef Attached Images

27th February 2009, 10:02 PM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,123	Very nice. I look forward to seeing photos once it is washed and stained. Love the pendok on this sheath.

27th February 2009, 10:22 PM	#4
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	From the pics the work done on the old hit material is , without doubt, absolutely wonderful !!!

27th February 2009, 11:56 PM	#6
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Congrats, nice Palembang combo! This Sumatran gonjo iras blade certainly deserves a decent stain. Regards, Kai

28th February 2009, 03:27 AM	#7
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,781	Thank's for the comments!

8th March 2009, 10:04 PM	#11
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Detlef, That looks very good indeed! I only wonder why the pesi wasn't cleaned and stained completely as usually is done.

8th March 2009, 10:15 PM	#12
kulbuntet Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands Posts: 159	Hi Detlef, Same question come up in my head... about the peksi. For the rest nice wash. regards Michel

9th March 2009, 05:16 AM	#13
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,781	Hello Henk and Michel, I think that he hold the keris by warangan at the peksi. I have seen this when someone stained a blade. This don't will be a problem, when I received the keris I will clean the peksi in lemon-acid. Regards, Detlef

9th March 2009, 08:24 PM	#15
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,123	Wow Sajen, that's really pretty. I don't think it's a big deal that the pesi didn't receive staining, but i would make sure that all the rust is removed. Enjoy your new baby.

10th March 2009, 12:50 AM	#16
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,225	I am not a big fan of fossil mortar, but this one is definately one of the exceptions. Very nice handle, and of course a great keris all together. Love the pendok and the matching selut. Gratuliere ! Willem

22nd February 2011, 06:55 PM	#21
Jussi M. Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 235	And up for a job well done!

24th February 2011, 01:59 AM	#23
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THE FOSSIL MOLAR CAN BE BRITTLE AND SOME IS MORE UNSTABLE THAN OTHERS MAKEING IT RISKY TO WORK. AS A RESULT MOST CARVING IS USUALLY VERY SIMPLE. SOMEONE WENT THE EXTRA MILE ON THIS AS ITS THE BEST CARVING I HAVE SEEN USING THIS MATERIAL. A VERY NICE KERIS BE CAREFUL WITH IT TO AVOID SHEDING TEARS

28th February 2011, 08:13 AM	#25
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	Interesting.

1st March 2011, 04:25 AM	#27
DaveS Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	Jose: I read somewhere in one of the kris books that in the "old days" molar tooth was thought to be an antidote to poisons, especially in the middle eastern Islamic countries. It also was a trade item coming from Russian Siberia. Modern knifemakers here in the U.S are also starting to use it on their custom knife handles after it is stabilized. Don't know how it would hold up under hunting conditions I wonder if Alan knows more about this material. Dave.

1st March 2011, 04:55 AM	#28
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,220	My understanding is that it also protected the wearer because it was made of "dragon's tooth".

1st March 2011, 07:57 AM	#29
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	No, sorry, I know of no myths nor beliefs of Javanese or Balinese origin that are associated with this material. The oldest hilt of this material of which I am aware is the one in the Radya Pustaka Museum in Solo. Scroll about three-quarters down the page:- http://www.kerisattosanaji.com/radyapustaka.html