I have no idea ????

Freddy · 1st November 2005, 08:49 AM

I have this piece (axe ?) for some time and I'm still trying to figure out what it is. I even don't know where it comes from.

The handle is made from bamboo with a blade fixed to it at its top. The actual blade measures about 26,5 cm and is 8 cm wide at the top. The cutting edge is at the inside. It's a particularly heavy blade which is nearly 1 cm thick near the handle. It's inserted in a slit in this handle and quite loose. The only thing keeping it on the handle is a knotted leather thong.
This piece is heavy with most of the weight at the top (blade).
Total length : 96 cm.

I really have no idea what I have. Someone suggested to me it was a device for cutting grass, but I can hardly believe this.

So....anyone has a better idea ?

kai · 1st November 2005, 12:56 PM

Hi Freddy,

I'd posit the Annamite mountain chain as a possible place of origin (Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos).

I heard that a similar blade was used by the Mnong minority in the southern part of the mountain range but didn't managed to see a piece first-hand. I got this information from a western aid worker in Vietnam; a drawing shows a slightly more elongated blade with the edge on the outside curve but this may be an error. There are a lot of different peoples (some with widely divergent origins) scattered across these mountains and I've no idea which ethnic groups may have used similar blades; the Mnong are usually placed in the mountain Khmer group though which would point to a southern origin.

I'd assume that these once doubled as tools/weapons like many agricultural implements. I don't think the leather is original - much more likely to have been braided rattan or other plant fibers.

BTW, if you later on decide to toss it, please make sure to send me a note!

Regards,
Kai

RhysMichael · 1st November 2005, 01:17 PM

Freddy
Mark has posted on these a couple of times also. You can see some folks carrying them in the picture on the first page of his site http://dharesearch.bowditch.us/
And there are some threads on here about them so I am sure there will be more answers comming

Andrew · 1st November 2005, 01:54 PM

It's a mak, used by various peoples across continental SEA. At one time a battlefield weapon (see Mark's site as recommended by JT), I suspect these are now primarily agricultural tools.

I've seen fairly well-made and ornate examples (one was offered by Oriental Arms at Timonium last year--perhaps the owner will post pictures), but the ones I have are somewhat crude, but quite effective.

Ian · 1st November 2005, 03:12 PM

Hi Guys:

I've been off the air for a few weeks for various technical and other reasons. Just getting back to the Forum today.

Andrew and kai are right. This is a tool/weapon of the Montagnard tribes that live along the border areas between Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia. This weapon/tool seems to have been in use for quite some time, and is still being made.

Will post some additional pictures shortly.

Ian.

-------Picture added---------

Here is a picture from an old National Geographic article on teh Montagnard. It shows various knives, etc. including two mak on the left. The cutting edge is on the side where the "hook" protrudes (i.e., the concave edge).

Mark · 1st November 2005, 04:06 PM

Relief carving from Ankor Wat, 12th C, or maybe 14th and based on 12th C style books, depending on whose opinion you ask:

kai · 1st November 2005, 05:50 PM

And I was trying to remember where I saw that pic...

BTW, that relief seems to suggest that the cutting edge is on the side pointing away from the turned stick tip. How about the examples other forumites have? (Possibly the person who added the leather attachment got it all wrong?

)

Regards,
Kai

Mark · 1st November 2005, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

And I was trying to remember where I saw that pic...

BTW, that relief seems to suggest that the cutting edge is on the side pointing away from the turned stick tip. How about the examples other forumites have? (Possibly the person who added the leather attachment got it all wrong?

)

Regards,
Kai

Looking at Barry's example on my site, the blade is away from the tip, as in the Angkor relief. I don't have any of my own, but I handled a few at the Smithsonian a while back and just can't remember which way the edge faced.

Ian · 3rd November 2005, 11:29 PM

Pictures of mak added above in previous post and below.

Ian.

Ian · 4th November 2005, 01:58 PM

that Andrew referred to that was purchased from Artzi Yarom in Baltimore. The blade has an inserted edge, as well as brass inserts in the blade and along the spine. The handle is bamboo or rattan. Probably late 19th or early 20th C. Judging from the decorations on the blade, most likely from a hill tribe in northern Thailand or Laos.

Blade is sharpened along the inserted concave edge as well as the broad end. Overall length 30 inches.

Ian.

Battara · 4th November 2005, 08:46 PM

Now I get it - mak the knife!

(couldn't resist though maybe I should

)

Rick · 4th November 2005, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Now I get it - mak the knife!

(couldn't resist though maybe I should

)

Aarrghh .

Someone please take this man out back of the woodshed !

fearn · 5th November 2005, 03:02 AM

For a big mak attack, Rick?

Let the pun-ishment fit the crime, I say.

Andrew · 5th November 2005, 04:44 AM

[groan]

Ian · 5th November 2005, 01:20 PM

Oh boy.

Time to lock this thread and throw away the key.

Battara · 7th November 2005, 05:21 AM

Why? - I think it's very punny.

1st November 2005, 08:49 AM	#1
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	I have no idea ???? I have this piece (axe ?) for some time and I'm still trying to figure out what it is. I even don't know where it comes from. The handle is made from bamboo with a blade fixed to it at its top. The actual blade measures about 26,5 cm and is 8 cm wide at the top. The cutting edge is at the inside. It's a particularly heavy blade which is nearly 1 cm thick near the handle. It's inserted in a slit in this handle and quite loose. The only thing keeping it on the handle is a knotted leather thong. This piece is heavy with most of the weight at the top (blade). Total length : 96 cm. I really have no idea what I have. Someone suggested to me it was a device for cutting grass, but I can hardly believe this. So....anyone has a better idea ?

1st November 2005, 03:12 PM	#5
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,194	A mak indeed Hi Guys: I've been off the air for a few weeks for various technical and other reasons. Just getting back to the Forum today. Andrew and kai are right. This is a tool/weapon of the Montagnard tribes that live along the border areas between Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia. This weapon/tool seems to have been in use for quite some time, and is still being made. Will post some additional pictures shortly. Ian. -------Picture added--------- Here is a picture from an old National Geographic article on teh Montagnard. It shows various knives, etc. including two mak on the left. The cutting edge is on the side where the "hook" protrudes (i.e., the concave edge). Attached Images Last edited by Ian; 3rd November 2005 at 11:28 PM.

3rd November 2005, 11:29 PM	#9
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,194	Mak picture Pictures of mak added above in previous post and below. Ian. Attached Images

4th November 2005, 01:58 PM	#10
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,194	And this is the chopper ... that Andrew referred to that was purchased from Artzi Yarom in Baltimore. The blade has an inserted edge, as well as brass inserts in the blade and along the spine. The handle is bamboo or rattan. Probably late 19th or early 20th C. Judging from the decorations on the blade, most likely from a hill tribe in northern Thailand or Laos. Blade is sharpened along the inserted concave edge as well as the broad end. Overall length 30 inches. Ian. Attached Images

1st November 2005, 12:56 PM	#2
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Hi Freddy, I'd posit the Annamite mountain chain as a possible place of origin (Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos). I heard that a similar blade was used by the Mnong minority in the southern part of the mountain range but didn't managed to see a piece first-hand. I got this information from a western aid worker in Vietnam; a drawing shows a slightly more elongated blade with the edge on the outside curve but this may be an error. There are a lot of different peoples (some with widely divergent origins) scattered across these mountains and I've no idea which ethnic groups may have used similar blades; the Mnong are usually placed in the mountain Khmer group though which would point to a southern origin. I'd assume that these once doubled as tools/weapons like many agricultural implements. I don't think the leather is original - much more likely to have been braided rattan or other plant fibers. BTW, if you later on decide to toss it, please make sure to send me a note! Regards, Kai

1st November 2005, 01:17 PM	#3
RhysMichael Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 520	Freddy Mark has posted on these a couple of times also. You can see some folks carrying them in the picture on the first page of his site http://dharesearch.bowditch.us/ And there are some threads on here about them so I am sure there will be more answers comming

1st November 2005, 01:54 PM	#4
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	It's a mak, used by various peoples across continental SEA. At one time a battlefield weapon (see Mark's site as recommended by JT), I suspect these are now primarily agricultural tools. I've seen fairly well-made and ornate examples (one was offered by Oriental Arms at Timonium last year--perhaps the owner will post pictures), but the ones I have are somewhat crude, but quite effective.

1st November 2005, 04:06 PM	#6
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	Relief carving from Ankor Wat, 12th C, or maybe 14th and based on 12th C style books, depending on whose opinion you ask:

1st November 2005, 05:50 PM	#7
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	And I was trying to remember where I saw that pic... BTW, that relief seems to suggest that the cutting edge is on the side pointing away from the turned stick tip. How about the examples other forumites have? (Possibly the person who added the leather attachment got it all wrong? ) Regards, Kai

4th November 2005, 08:46 PM	#11
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,217	Now I get it - mak the knife! (couldn't resist though maybe I should )

5th November 2005, 03:02 AM	#13
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	For a big mak attack, Rick? Let the pun-ishment fit the crime, I say.

5th November 2005, 04:44 AM	#14
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	[groan]

5th November 2005, 01:20 PM	#15
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,194	Oh boy. Time to lock this thread and throw away the key.

7th November 2005, 05:21 AM	#16
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,217	Why? - I think it's very punny.