A HELMET FROM A FUNERARY ACHIEVEMENT

Cerjak · 17th October 2015, 08:45 PM

When a knight or member of the nobility died, particularly if they had a reputation as a warrior, a special helmet called a funerary helm was hung near or above their monument. Such funerary helms could be purely ornamental, but were more commonly actual armour worn by the person during their life - though not necessarily a helm used in battle
Even with alterations this helmet is still an interesting historical piece ,It has two-piece skull with prominent comb with turned edge And also various patched repairs .The comb fitted with a funerary spike to the top. The skull is probably first half of the 17TH Century.
Any comment on it will be welcome.

Cerjak

Cerjak · 17th October 2015, 08:46 PM

other example

ulfberth · 17th October 2015, 09:22 PM

Congratulations Jean Luc,

this is clearly an antique funural helmet made of old parts and as you said, it is part of history.

Kind regards

Ulfberth

fernando · 17th October 2015, 10:06 PM

Very interesting acquisiton, Jean-Luc.
Felicitations

Cerjak · 18th October 2015, 01:26 PM

Other funerary HELM

A Senefelder · 18th October 2015, 06:17 PM

Funnery achievements were earlier on components of the actual armour of the deceased. These later examples are interesting in their own right for a sometimes different reason in that they are often made from odds and ends of original functional components and quickly ginned up elements. Jean's example seems to be made from elements of 17th century cuirassiers helmets. The bowl was damaged, the front made from two non matching components ( this visor clearly was intended originally for a helmet with a much more pronounced chin ) appears to be from a different helmet than the bowl as the flange carrying the gorget plate on the front sits considerably lower than the flange ( which has been cut away ) on the bowl of the helmet would have been ( as the back gorget plate goes under the front gorget plate when the helmet is closed and one this obviously would not be possible the these elements ). This is a nice classic example of a later funnery achievement of the 17th century made up from original components from several other helmets.

Cerjak · 25th October 2015, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Senefelder

Funnery achievements were earlier on components of the actual armour of the deceased. These later examples are interesting in their own right for a sometimes different reason in that they are often made from odds and ends of original functional components and quickly ginned up elements. Jean's example seems to be made from elements of 17th century cuirassiers helmets. The bowl was damaged, the front made from two non matching components ( this visor clearly was intended originally for a helmet with a much more pronounced chin ) appears to be from a different helmet than the bowl as the flange carrying the gorget plate on the front sits considerably lower than the flange ( which has been cut away ) on the bowl of the helmet would have been ( as the back gorget plate goes under the front gorget plate when the helmet is closed and one this obviously would not be possible the these elements ). This is a nice classic example of a later funnery achievement of the 17th century made up from original components from several other helmets.

Hi Allan

Many thanks for your imput .It is always good to have your opinion.

Best

Jean-Luc

Raf · 3rd November 2015, 09:33 PM

I have one similar to Cerjaks but put together in a more naive way. It was described by Bonham's as a reproduction of a funery helmet in a seventeenth century style . Which seemed a little odd since it also incorporates bits of a genuine helmet and there is nothing about it that suggests it isn't seventeenth century. On a recent visit to Cotehele in Cornwall, I found a virtually identical helmet which was described as an undertakers funery helmet which seemed to me to make sense. By the beginning of the seventeenth century the funery achievement had moved down market and the implication is that undertakers provided or perhaps hired out rather crudely made helmets as part of the funery trappings , but not necessarily for permanent display in a church.
Image 1 is the Cotehele helmet and 2 and 3 our version.

CSinTX · 19th February 2019, 09:23 PM

What was the purpose of the central spike?

Jim McDougall · 20th February 2019, 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSinTX

What was the purpose of the central spike?

Very good question!
The subject of medieval helmets used in funerary situations has brought up many questions concerning the curious fixtures and additions to armor and particularly helmets. As these types of armor and helmets were later used to adorn the tombs of figures of rank and title in the tradition of early use of actual armor......they were made often with features to accommodate their display.
In the case of the spike, I believe these were to mount the family coat of arms (or charges as seen in post #5). Naturally not all displays were the same, so many helmets are without it.

fernando · 20th February 2019, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSinTX

What was the purpose of the central spike?

That would be for the attachment of an heraldic crest ... so it says IN HERE., for one.

Jim McDougall · 20th February 2019, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

That would be for the attachment of an heraldic crest ... so it says IN HERE., for one.

Good call!! I should have said heraldic crest instead of coat of arms!!!
It sounds gooder.

fernando · 21st February 2019, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Good call!! I should have said heraldic crest instead of coat of arms!!!
It sounds gooder.

So i have doubled you, Jim.
As you started your reply to CSinTX with an aquiescing :

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Very good question! ...

I didn't notice that you haven't cracked the riddle in your last paragraph.

Jim McDougall · 21st February 2019, 07:47 PM

I didn't notice that you haven't cracked the riddle in your last paragraph.[/QUOTE]

These funerary armor elements really do pose riddles, as they become entangled with, or are presumed to be, actual pieces of medieval armor.
I recall one case where there were odd attachments on the back of one which were theorized to be for preventing the helm from becoming detached or some such. Turned out to be mounting attachments for display.

17th October 2015, 08:45 PM	#1
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	A HELMET FROM A FUNERARY ACHIEVEMENT When a knight or member of the nobility died, particularly if they had a reputation as a warrior, a special helmet called a funerary helm was hung near or above their monument. Such funerary helms could be purely ornamental, but were more commonly actual armour worn by the person during their life - though not necessarily a helm used in battle Even with alterations this helmet is still an interesting historical piece ,It has two-piece skull with prominent comb with turned edge And also various patched repairs .The comb fitted with a funerary spike to the top. The skull is probably first half of the 17TH Century. Any comment on it will be welcome. Cerjak Attached Images

17th October 2015, 08:46 PM	#2
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	other example Attached Images

3rd November 2015, 09:33 PM	#8
Raf Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 252	I have one similar to Cerjaks but put together in a more naive way. It was described by Bonham's as a reproduction of a funery helmet in a seventeenth century style . Which seemed a little odd since it also incorporates bits of a genuine helmet and there is nothing about it that suggests it isn't seventeenth century. On a recent visit to Cotehele in Cornwall, I found a virtually identical helmet which was described as an undertakers funery helmet which seemed to me to make sense. By the beginning of the seventeenth century the funery achievement had moved down market and the implication is that undertakers provided or perhaps hired out rather crudely made helmets as part of the funery trappings , but not necessarily for permanent display in a church. Image 1 is the Cotehele helmet and 2 and 3 our version. Attached Images Last edited by Raf; 4th November 2015 at 04:38 PM.

17th October 2015, 09:22 PM	#3
ulfberth Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 402	Congratulations Jean Luc, this is clearly an antique funural helmet made of old parts and as you said, it is part of history. Kind regards Ulfberth

17th October 2015, 10:06 PM	#4
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Very interesting acquisiton, Jean-Luc. Felicitations

18th October 2015, 01:26 PM	#5
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	PICTURES FROM CHURCHS Other funerary HELM Attached Images

18th October 2015, 06:17 PM	#6
A Senefelder Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 214	Funnery achievements were earlier on components of the actual armour of the deceased. These later examples are interesting in their own right for a sometimes different reason in that they are often made from odds and ends of original functional components and quickly ginned up elements. Jean's example seems to be made from elements of 17th century cuirassiers helmets. The bowl was damaged, the front made from two non matching components ( this visor clearly was intended originally for a helmet with a much more pronounced chin ) appears to be from a different helmet than the bowl as the flange carrying the gorget plate on the front sits considerably lower than the flange ( which has been cut away ) on the bowl of the helmet would have been ( as the back gorget plate goes under the front gorget plate when the helmet is closed and one this obviously would not be possible the these elements ). This is a nice classic example of a later funnery achievement of the 17th century made up from original components from several other helmets.

19th February 2019, 09:23 PM	#9
CSinTX Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 233	What was the purpose of the central spike?

21st February 2019, 07:47 PM	#14
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,947	I didn't notice that you haven't cracked the riddle in your last paragraph.[/QUOTE] These funerary armor elements really do pose riddles, as they become entangled with, or are presumed to be, actual pieces of medieval armor. I recall one case where there were odd attachments on the back of one which were theorized to be for preventing the helm from becoming detached or some such. Turned out to be mounting attachments for display.