Please Help with Solingen Knife?

JISX · 12th July 2019, 11:15 PM

Hi everyone,

Can someone please help me identify the possible age, origin and maker of this Solingen knife?

Knife appears to be all hand-made including the sheath. The handle is made of what appears to be walrus(?) tusk, with a unknown animal(?) carved in high relief, handle lacking its pommel and sheath rivets with rosehead-type heads.

Knife Size approx: 8-1/2 inches.

Thank you all in advance for your time and help.

Kind regards,
Jo

Battara · 13th July 2019, 01:13 AM

Welcome to our little forum!

Actually this looks like elephant ivory to me with age, and European in nature. I'll sent this over to the European section for you.

M ELEY · 13th July 2019, 01:51 AM

Nice knife! This one is a mystery, but I'll take a stab. Obviously, the blade is a German import. The clipped point bowie-style blade type was popular in the Americas in the early 19th and later century. The scabbard is western in pattern (not Asian, Philippine, etc), with copper studs seen on colonial Amer pieces up to the time of the CW, American southwestern pieces, etc. The ivory hilt is beautifully carved in more of an ethnographic style, but with the other amenities pointing to non-ethno, my guess is that this piece could be colonial Spanish (Am SW, Mexico) or South American?? Much German influence and imported Solingen blades found on gaucho knives, etc.

Of course, I could be blowing smoke! Some European knives had clip points. The carving could be a loose interpretation of Germanic carving (trouse knives). What is this strange animal head? Not a stag, bear or wolf! Looks like a wallaby!!!

Could it be a bat?! (Mexico)

JISX · 13th July 2019, 04:40 AM

Thank you both for your time and thoughts.

M ELEY, I believe you are spot on! In conducting a little internet research, I was able to locate a near identical sheath baring copper rivets, but housing I different knife than the one I have posted here and it was ID'ed as a: 'Indian Trade Knife'.

I'm not applying my knife is that of an Indian Trade piece, but at least I have something to go on as far as research. The animal carved atop the handle I can't really tell what it is/was to represent. It's face has been rubbed from age/wear and its features somewhat gone. Appears to be an owl(?), bat(?) or ???

Anyway, I'll travel down more of the the roads you've suggested in hopes of ID'ing this piece. To be continued.....

Kind Regards,
Jo

asomotif · 13th July 2019, 09:41 AM

What a nice knife.
I am happy that it was posted in ethnographic for a short while catching my attention

I really wonder what animal it represents. because the carver gave it a very prominent place on the hilt. form over function obviously.
Can you make pictures from various angles, more frontal of the creatures face ?

I have rotated and mirrored 1 picture.

Best regards,
Willem

asomotif · 13th July 2019, 09:49 AM

How about this one

kronckew · 13th July 2019, 09:52 AM

The sheath seems rather crudely made compared to the knife itself, I'd think it was a later hurried addition due to loss of the original sheath or scabbard.

It deserves a better one.

P.s. - The fennec fox: (the winter arctic fox also looks a lot like the carving)

Victrix · 13th July 2019, 10:05 AM

Could the creature be a kangaroo baby (Australia) in its mother’s pocket or a llama with a craning neck (Peru)?

kronckew · 13th July 2019, 07:17 PM

Still think it's a fox. There are two Llamas in the field next to me, about 50 metres away as I type. they do not look anywhere close.

This little guy, A red fox, does...We also have a foxy visitor much like it almost every night, my dog wants to play with it. But not in a good way. It was about 20 feet away last night when I turned on my headlamp and saw it's reflective eyes, it came a bit closer to get to a path thru the hedges at the boundary just as poppy decided it was time to turn around, see it and get excited. Holding back a 25 kilo dog berserker intent on mayhem is not my favourite activity.

Edited:

Added a photo of the neighbours, well, 3/5 of them. There is another horse and a black Llama I cropped out as I was trying to get a pic of Mr. Piggy. He has a set of tusks that would make nice knife handles.

David R · 13th July 2019, 11:20 PM

To my eye, the ivory carving looks very Chinese or Japanese, and a nice example of such. Possibly "re-purposed" as a hilt from something else. A walking stick or parasol handle perhaps. Which then has me seeing this as a sailors memento or curio.

thinreadline · 13th July 2019, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David R

To my eye, the ivory carving looks very Chinese or Japanese, and a nice example of such. Possibly "re-purposed" as a hilt from something else. A walking stick or parasol handle perhaps. Which then has me seeing this as a sailors memento or curio.

I do agree David ... I think this is a composite , the handle coming from a non knife related item , the blade reshaped from some larger blade , perhaps a carving knife and the scabbard a chance unrelated find . The scabbard is clearly for a spear pointed knife , not a clip blade such as this. The quality of the grip far exceeds the blade and the scabbard.

asomotif · 14th July 2019, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David R

To my eye, the ivory carving looks very Chinese or Japanese, and a nice example of such. Possibly "re-purposed" as a hilt from something else. A walking stick or parasol handle perhaps. Which then has me seeing this as a sailors memento or curio.

Dear David,

seriously ? can you show me japanese or chinese carvings in this style ?

Best regards,
Willem

Bryce · 15th July 2019, 04:47 AM

G'day Guys,
That animal is definitely not a wallaby or kangaroo!

Cheers,
Bryce

David R · 15th July 2019, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif

Dear David,

seriously ? can you show me japanese or chinese carvings in this style ?

Best regards,
Willem

I know that a fair bit of carved ivory came from the Far East in the the 19th century, some of it made for export, and for items like parasol and walking stick handles. As such, they do not exactly match the products for domestic consumption. What I was going by was the skill in the carving, and the the use of staining to bring out fine detail. It would also explain why it is hard to decide on the exact subject, mouse, rabbit, hare or one of those less familiar beasties, such as the Ezo momonga, though the ears are a giveaway here.
However, I may be wrong, and I await your suggestion of the carvings origin with a fair bit of interest.

12th July 2019, 11:15 PM	#1
JISX Member Join Date: Oct 2018 Posts: 10	Please Help with Solingen Knife? Hi everyone, Can someone please help me identify the possible age, origin and maker of this Solingen knife? Knife appears to be all hand-made including the sheath. The handle is made of what appears to be walrus(?) tusk, with a unknown animal(?) carved in high relief, handle lacking its pommel and sheath rivets with rosehead-type heads. Knife Size approx: 8-1/2 inches. Thank you all in advance for your time and help. Kind regards, Jo Attached Images

13th July 2019, 01:51 AM	#3
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,097	Nice knife! This one is a mystery, but I'll take a stab. Obviously, the blade is a German import. The clipped point bowie-style blade type was popular in the Americas in the early 19th and later century. The scabbard is western in pattern (not Asian, Philippine, etc), with copper studs seen on colonial Amer pieces up to the time of the CW, American southwestern pieces, etc. The ivory hilt is beautifully carved in more of an ethnographic style, but with the other amenities pointing to non-ethno, my guess is that this piece could be colonial Spanish (Am SW, Mexico) or South American?? Much German influence and imported Solingen blades found on gaucho knives, etc. Of course, I could be blowing smoke! Some European knives had clip points. The carving could be a loose interpretation of Germanic carving (trouse knives). What is this strange animal head? Not a stag, bear or wolf! Looks like a wallaby!!! Could it be a bat?! (Mexico) Last edited by M ELEY; 13th July 2019 at 02:06 AM.

13th July 2019, 09:41 AM	#5
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,225	What a nice knife. I am happy that it was posted in ethnographic for a short while catching my attention I really wonder what animal it represents. because the carver gave it a very prominent place on the hilt. form over function obviously. Can you make pictures from various angles, more frontal of the creatures face ? I have rotated and mirrored 1 picture. Best regards, Willem Attached Images

13th July 2019, 09:49 AM	#6
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,225	How about this one Attached Images

13th July 2019, 09:52 AM	#7
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,184	The sheath seems rather crudely made compared to the knife itself, I'd think it was a later hurried addition due to loss of the original sheath or scabbard. It deserves a better one. P.s. - The fennec fox: (the winter arctic fox also looks a lot like the carving) Attached Images

13th July 2019, 01:13 AM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,221	Welcome to our little forum! Actually this looks like elephant ivory to me with age, and European in nature. I'll sent this over to the European section for you.

13th July 2019, 04:40 AM	#4
JISX Member Join Date: Oct 2018 Posts: 10	Thank you both for your time and thoughts. M ELEY, I believe you are spot on! In conducting a little internet research, I was able to locate a near identical sheath baring copper rivets, but housing I different knife than the one I have posted here and it was ID'ed as a: 'Indian Trade Knife'. I'm not applying my knife is that of an Indian Trade piece, but at least I have something to go on as far as research. The animal carved atop the handle I can't really tell what it is/was to represent. It's face has been rubbed from age/wear and its features somewhat gone. Appears to be an owl(?), bat(?) or ??? Anyway, I'll travel down more of the the roads you've suggested in hopes of ID'ing this piece. To be continued..... Kind Regards, Jo

13th July 2019, 10:05 AM	#8
Victrix Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Sweden Posts: 712	Could the creature be a kangaroo baby (Australia) in its mother’s pocket or a llama with a craning neck (Peru)?

13th July 2019, 07:17 PM	#9
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,184	Still think it's a fox. There are two Llamas in the field next to me, about 50 metres away as I type. they do not look anywhere close. This little guy, A red fox, does...We also have a foxy visitor much like it almost every night, my dog wants to play with it. But not in a good way. It was about 20 feet away last night when I turned on my headlamp and saw it's reflective eyes, it came a bit closer to get to a path thru the hedges at the boundary just as poppy decided it was time to turn around, see it and get excited. Holding back a 25 kilo dog berserker intent on mayhem is not my favourite activity. Edited: Added a photo of the neighbours, well, 3/5 of them. There is another horse and a black Llama I cropped out as I was trying to get a pic of Mr. Piggy. He has a set of tusks that would make nice knife handles. Attached Images Last edited by kronckew; 13th July 2019 at 07:27 PM.

13th July 2019, 11:20 PM	#10
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,079	To my eye, the ivory carving looks very Chinese or Japanese, and a nice example of such. Possibly "re-purposed" as a hilt from something else. A walking stick or parasol handle perhaps. Which then has me seeing this as a sailors memento or curio.

15th July 2019, 04:47 AM	#13
Bryce Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: North Queensland, Australia Posts: 186	G'day Guys, That animal is definitely not a wallaby or kangaroo! Cheers, Bryce