Small kris from Sumatra?

Jean · 30th March 2016, 07:24 PM

I own this small kris (the blade is 20 cm long) and I guess that it originates from Sumatra but it is not typical of any regional style so I am looking for your opinions. The piece has age, and the blade & scabbard are matching well and had been together for at least several decades. The Jawa demam hilt, sampir, and buntut are made from ivory.
Regards

David · 30th March 2016, 07:31 PM

Thanks for posting this Jean. I love patrems. This is a lovely example. I would agree with Sumatra, but i am afraid i cannot pinpoint it further for you. I have found that many patrems do not exactly adhere to regional styles.

mariusgmioc · 31st March 2016, 10:52 AM

As I don't know too much about kerises, I am not able to give you any valuable input. Just wanted to let you know that I like this keris very much despite not being my pompously decorated style. I find it has some kind of very nicely balanced harmony, hard to describe in words. Thank you for the photos!

Jean · 31st March 2016, 03:28 PM

Thank you David and Marius.
Since David loves patrems, I am showing 2 more small krisses also expected to originate from Sumatra, but other opinions are welcome:
. The first one is a small Bugis kris from East Sumatra?, the blade is 23 cm long and was recently stained.
. The second one is a miniature kris (blade lenght 16 cm) with a matching Jawa demam hilt from ivory, and the style of the scabbard is peculiar.
Regards

mariusgmioc · 31st March 2016, 05:05 PM

Love these too, but my favourite remains the first one. Thank you for the photos!
I am pretty sure Alan can tell you much more about the Kerises.
Do you know why are they so small?

Jean · 31st March 2016, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Love these too, but my favourite remains the first one. Thank you for the photos!
I am pretty sure Alan can tell you much more about the Kerises.
Do you know why are they so small?

I guess that these pieces were worn by women or even a kid for the last one but who knows?

Regards

A. G. Maisey · 31st March 2016, 11:22 PM

Sorry Marius, but I don't take much interest in keris from places other than Jawa/Sunda/Madura/Bali.

The reason for this is that Jawa/Bali is the core of keris culture. When keris went into other areas of S.E. Asia, sometimes as gifts from a Javanese ruler to another ruler, sometimes as items of trade, the object itself went, but the Javanese understanding of the keris stayed behind in Jawa.

Since my approach to keris study is historical/cultural/societal, and since I have only a limited time on this earth, I prefer to use that time for study in an area that I personally regard as important.

Time spent on places other than the core is to me, somewhat of a waste of time.

David · 1st April 2016, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Do you know why are they so small?

Marius, keris of this size from certain regions of Indonesia are generally referred to as patrems and it is usually believed that they are intended for women. Frankly i do not believe nearly enough has been written about these and their place within keris culture, but it does seem to me that they were only intended for women of a certain status. Patrems seem to be found mostly in Jawa, Madura and Sumatra and to a lesser extent in Bali. Words other than "patrem" might be used outside of Jawa.
Similarly small keris can also be found in amongst the Malays, though in those cases they are called Keris Selit or Sisip (which i believe means "slotted", referring to how it is worn in the waistband) and serve a completely different cultural purpose. They are carried mostly by men in that culture and are a secondary and rather ceremonial weapon.

mariusgmioc · 1st April 2016, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Marius, keris of this size from certain regions of Indonesia are generally referred to as patrems and it is usually believed that they are intended for women. Frankly i do not believe nearly enough has been written about these and their place within keris culture, but it does seem to me that they were only intended for women of a certain status. Patrems seem to be found mostly in Jawa, Madura and Sumatra and to a lesser extent in Bali. Words other than "patrem" might be used outside of Jawa.
Similarly small keris can also be found in amongst the Malays, though in those cases they are called Keris Selit or Sisip (which i believe means "slotted", referring to how it is worn in the waistband) and serve a completely different cultural purpose. They are carried mostly by men in that culture and are a secondary and rather ceremonial weapon.

Very interesting. Thanks!

30th March 2016, 07:24 PM	#1
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Small kris from Sumatra? I own this small kris (the blade is 20 cm long) and I guess that it originates from Sumatra but it is not typical of any regional style so I am looking for your opinions. The piece has age, and the blade & scabbard are matching well and had been together for at least several decades. The Jawa demam hilt, sampir, and buntut are made from ivory. Regards Attached Images

31st March 2016, 03:28 PM	#4
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Thank you David and Marius. Since David loves patrems, I am showing 2 more small krisses also expected to originate from Sumatra, but other opinions are welcome: . The first one is a small Bugis kris from East Sumatra?, the blade is 23 cm long and was recently stained. . The second one is a miniature kris (blade lenght 16 cm) with a matching Jawa demam hilt from ivory, and the style of the scabbard is peculiar. Regards Attached Images

30th March 2016, 07:31 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,123	Thanks for posting this Jean. I love patrems. This is a lovely example. I would agree with Sumatra, but i am afraid i cannot pinpoint it further for you. I have found that many patrems do not exactly adhere to regional styles.

31st March 2016, 10:52 AM	#3
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,903	As I don't know too much about kerises, I am not able to give you any valuable input. Just wanted to let you know that I like this keris very much despite not being my pompously decorated style. I find it has some kind of very nicely balanced harmony, hard to describe in words. Thank you for the photos!

31st March 2016, 05:05 PM	#5
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,903	Love these too, but my favourite remains the first one. Thank you for the photos! I am pretty sure Alan can tell you much more about the Kerises. Do you know why are they so small?

31st March 2016, 11:22 PM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	Sorry Marius, but I don't take much interest in keris from places other than Jawa/Sunda/Madura/Bali. The reason for this is that Jawa/Bali is the core of keris culture. When keris went into other areas of S.E. Asia, sometimes as gifts from a Javanese ruler to another ruler, sometimes as items of trade, the object itself went, but the Javanese understanding of the keris stayed behind in Jawa. Since my approach to keris study is historical/cultural/societal, and since I have only a limited time on this earth, I prefer to use that time for study in an area that I personally regard as important. Time spent on places other than the core is to me, somewhat of a waste of time.