Any thoughts on this Lampang Darb?

harimauhk · 7th August 2009, 02:07 AM

The auction's over and I bought the first one the seller listed. It's my first darb (my first sword, really) and it appears to be of good quality to my untrained eye...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Emanuel · 7th August 2009, 05:49 PM

Hello,

It seems all right. Distal taper, so forged blade, not stock removal. The seller doesn't say anything about the tang, whether it's forged or a welded rat-tail. The former is good, the latter very bad and potentially dangerous. Welded rat-tail tangs can be weak and they may snap off if you wave/hit the sword vigorously.

Let us know how it feels when you receive it.

Too bad about the copper habaki. A feature of Japanese nihonto, not thai/burmese dha.

Maybe you could have found an old dha for the price.

Regards,
Emanuel

fearn · 7th August 2009, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emanuel

Hello,

...Too bad about the copper habaki. A feature of Japanese nihonto, not thai/burmese dha.

Regards,
Emanuel

Interesting that they're using the habaki here, too.

As some of you know, I happen to like Himalayan Import Khukuris, all of which now come with a habaki, even though they're made in Nepal by Nepalese kamis.

The reason they do this is that, once they saw a habaki one someone's katana, they grabbed the idea, because it made for a better fit in the sheath, and it made it easier to fit the blade and hilt together, because they could cover and reinforce the join with the habaki, rather than fiddling to make sure everything fit perfectly, as they did on the old khukuris.

So, I don't really blame modern bladesmiths for adding what they think are improvements to their work. I only grumble when someone tries to pass it off as traditional. For better or worse, I think the habaki's here to stay, and we're probably going to be seeing it on more and more blades as time goes by.

F

trenchwarfare · 7th August 2009, 06:50 PM

Sword looks new. The habaki has a number on it. I smell China. They're making everything else, why not these? Thousands of copies, fakes, and fantasies, coming out of China. All forged. Amazing what you can accomplish, with modern technology, and free (slave) labor. It would boggle the mind, to know how many newly made swords, are in China as we speak. Er, type.

Emanuel · 7th August 2009, 07:06 PM

This is a new sword of course, it is advertized as such, but it is not necessarily Chinese. A number of Thai firms and craftsmen are producing new dha and other swords, ranging from poor to quite good quality.

Fearn, the HI khukuri don't have habaki per se, just much larger bolsters. Traditional khukri were constructed in the same manner but with smaller bolsters/ferrules. These serve to reinforce the hilt-blade connection.

The habaki serves only as a locking mechanism for the blade to sit in the scabbard without touching the scabbard's inner surfaces.

I think in the dha above the habaki is there purely as a stylistic feature, mimicking in a way the more popular nihonto.

Emanuel

trenchwarfare · 7th August 2009, 07:45 PM

Delete

trenchwarfare · 7th August 2009, 08:07 PM

Delete

Mark · 7th August 2009, 09:33 PM

This looks like a nicely-made modern daab. I very much doubt it is from China - as has been said there are a number of smiths around Thailand that still make daab. It looks quite solid. Please let us know how it feels once you have it in hand. Not a bad start to sword collecting, I think.

harimauhk · 8th August 2009, 03:22 AM

I actually have it here with me

Very sharp point, good slicing ability from the belly and the rattan wrap looks great. Since it was sent out directly from Chiang Mai, I really doubt it was made in China. It appears to be solid and handles quite well. Interesting point about the habaki--I thought I had quite a traditionally made darb on my hands! Thanks everyone!

BTW, is there any way I can find out what kind of tang this sword has?

Emanuel · 8th August 2009, 04:09 AM

Try to remove the handle

It's a bit of work unwrapping the rattan, removing the brass ferrule and habaki, and even then the handle might be glued. Ask the seller. If you feel this is a good product and you say so, he shouldn't have any problem answering and giving you other construction details.

harimauhk · 8th August 2009, 03:55 PM

Thanks Emanuel, but I'd hate to mess the wrap up, so I'll try asking the seller first

He seems like a cool guy.

PS: this is me, not the seller

The pics of the darb, however, are the sellers', not mine.

kronckew · 8th August 2009, 08:16 PM

i use a strong magnet on my dhas & darbs, if you slide it along the grip you can feel where it pulls on the tang. another way is to suspend the magnet on a string and move the grip across in front of it from the pommel, it'll start deflecting slightly when you reach the end of the tang.

not all have short stub tangs.

two from aranyik

the top one here has a more traditional stub tang about 4in. long, with a steel rod welded to the end that is threaded to hold the heavy metal pommel. blade is differentially hardened, no habaki. heavy steel bolster to absorb the shock of a cut without breaking the handle.

bottom one has a broad tang that extends most of the grip and is pinned in two places with1/4 in. steel pins, again the end has a small rod welded to it to hold the steel pommel. again no habaki and a very thick steel bolster. this one is built to take it. again, a differentially hardened steel blade, but this one was professionally polished.

traditional dha/darb with 3-4in blind stub tangs worked on the battlefield for centuries, i'd not be afraid of using one like that, as long as the resin was in good shape...

i've also seen them where the tang is actually a rod welded to the ricasso of the blade and ground down. avoid them like the plague. they can break under light handling and the flying blade knows no mercy.

p.s. - nice picture of the wielder. the dha/darb is usually a one handed weapon, the long grip is used as a balance, and is normally held just behind the bolster. draw cuts are more normal as opposed to heavy chopping. they are designed for unarmoured or lightly armoured opponents in lightweight clothing. cutting down a tree is also not recommended.

harimauhk · 9th August 2009, 02:09 AM

Hi kronckew,

Nice darbs

I have some strong magnets lying around so I'll try to work out what kind of tang I have later. That's a great idea (and one I never would have thought of). Thanks.

The wielder in the pic is me. I realize the darb is a one-handed weapon in most cases, and I also realize it is best used in a draw cut--trying to chop through a water bottle with it did not work, but it cuts like a razor.

Nathaniel · 9th August 2009, 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trenchwarfare

Sword looks new. The habaki has a number on it. I smell China. They're making everything else, why not these? Thousands of copies, fakes, and fantasies, coming out of China. All forged. Amazing what you can accomplish, with modern technology, and free (slave) labor. It would boggle the mind, to know how many newly made swords, are in China as we speak. Er, type.

Hello harimauhk,

Gone for a few days and look what fun I missed :P The seller is truthful in what he says, the sword is from Lampang, not China...I can vouch for that because I have a similar piece which I know it came from the Lampang, versus the more commonly found Aranyik style which kronckew has in the pictures he posted.

These blades are better than the Aranyik daab, which have very little profile... they are more mass produced...more like a lawn mower blade...the Aranyik blades & handle feel very sturdy though...on the lampang piece I have I feel the handle could be a bit beefier...it would be interesting to know how they put the handle together.

I have not heard of this old thai smith Go Neaw. The seller's claims that he is the best sword maker in Thailand seem a little much.

Nathaniel · 9th August 2009, 04:59 AM

Oh, and the habaki....true it's not traditional, but you do see this on some Thai hybrid swords due to Japanese influence...I will say though with the habaki, it does fit very nicely in the scabbard...and the overall finish work on the scabbard inside is much better...the aranyik ones are very rounghly done...in a generic shape to fit the different sword tips they make...so the aranyik blades all rattle in their scabbard and slide out very easily if tipped upside down...versus the Lampang one can be tipped upside down without any problem

harimauhk · 9th August 2009, 05:31 AM

Hi Nathaniel,

Thanks for your input. I definitely like my darb and the sword will definitely not fall out of the scabbard.

BTW, the pic of the guy with the sword is me. Dammit, every time I take a pic with one of my blades, someone gets a laugh out of it

Sent this pic of me with my badik to a friend of mine and she thanked me for making her laugh and helping relieve her exam stress.

Seller just got back to me and said it is definitely full-tang construction! I knew I had a keeper on my hands.

Nathaniel · 9th August 2009, 04:03 PM

harimauhk,

Ooops, guess you saw my comment before I edited it...Hey I've had some good laughs to from others when I struck a deep kung fu pose in front of a Taoist temple :P but hey you got to have fun posing...

Yes, I think this is one of the better made daab in thailand. Some Thai forum members like Puff might be able to say more than I have about the smith, etc...

I thought of another forum discussion which might be of interst...you can see an earlier model of the Lampang daab:

http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001291.html

Also if you look on ebay there is another Lampang daab...not by the same seller your bought...but another seller from Bangkok....

Nathaniel · 9th August 2009, 04:22 PM

I should amend my comment and say the above regards the basic mass produced aranyik daab for the general tourist market...I understand they have to make what sells and keeps their business afloat...

Case in Point: Khun Dang's beautiful Cusom Aranyik Daab:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=9228

And Jason's

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ht=custom+daab

Nathaniel · 9th August 2009, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emanuel

Hello,

It seems all right. Distal taper, so forged blade, not stock removal. The seller doesn't say anything about the tang, whether it's forged or a welded rat-tail. The former is good, the latter very bad and potentially dangerous. Welded rat-tail tangs can be weak and they may snap off if you wave/hit the sword vigorously.

Let us know how it feels when you receive it.

Too bad about the copper habaki. A feature of Japanese nihonto, not thai/burmese dha.

Maybe you could have found an old dha for the price.

Regards,
Emanuel

To follow up on Emanuel's comment on the tang construction...here are some good explinations taken from Cozun out of Aranyik:

Pictures of the different Tang Styles:

harimauhk · 9th August 2009, 04:58 PM

Thanks Nathaniel, I actually sent the seller the pics from cozun.com to help him out since Thai is his first language. I can't find the other Lampang daab on eBay though. Could you link me to it through PM?

wilked aka Khun Deng · 11th August 2009, 05:26 AM

Nicely made modern darb up there in Chiang Mai - I just got back. And thanks Nathaniel for that link to Jason's piece. What a beauty!! Serge definitely has become the go-to guy out there for custom made work.

Dan

harimauhk · 12th August 2009, 03:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilked aka Khun Deng

Nicely made modern darb up there in Chiang Mai - I just got back. And thanks Nathaniel for that link to Jason's piece. What a beauty!! Serge definitely has become the go-to guy out there for custom made work.

Dan

Thanks Khun Deng--love the darb, but the habaki bothers me a little. Still, it is a fully functional sword, which is what I was after, so I'm happy overall.

7th August 2009, 02:07 AM	#1
harimauhk Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 88	Any thoughts on this Lampang Darb? The auction's over and I bought the first one the seller listed. It's my first darb (my first sword, really) and it appears to be of good quality to my untrained eye... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

7th August 2009, 05:49 PM	#2
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Hello, It seems all right. Distal taper, so forged blade, not stock removal. The seller doesn't say anything about the tang, whether it's forged or a welded rat-tail. The former is good, the latter very bad and potentially dangerous. Welded rat-tail tangs can be weak and they may snap off if you wave/hit the sword vigorously. Let us know how it feels when you receive it. Too bad about the copper habaki. A feature of Japanese nihonto, not thai/burmese dha. Maybe you could have found an old dha for the price. Regards, Emanuel Attached Images Last edited by Emanuel; 7th August 2009 at 07:09 PM. Reason: Pic from auction

7th August 2009, 07:45 PM	#6
trenchwarfare Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 385	Delete Last edited by trenchwarfare; 7th August 2009 at 08:09 PM.

8th August 2009, 03:55 PM	#11
harimauhk Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 88	Thanks Emanuel, but I'd hate to mess the wrap up, so I'll try asking the seller first He seems like a cool guy. PS: this is me, not the seller The pics of the darb, however, are the sellers', not mine. Attached Images Last edited by harimauhk; 8th August 2009 at 04:06 PM.

8th August 2009, 08:16 PM	#12
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,184	i use a strong magnet on my dhas & darbs, if you slide it along the grip you can feel where it pulls on the tang. another way is to suspend the magnet on a string and move the grip across in front of it from the pommel, it'll start deflecting slightly when you reach the end of the tang. not all have short stub tangs. two from aranyik the top one here has a more traditional stub tang about 4in. long, with a steel rod welded to the end that is threaded to hold the heavy metal pommel. blade is differentially hardened, no habaki. heavy steel bolster to absorb the shock of a cut without breaking the handle. bottom one has a broad tang that extends most of the grip and is pinned in two places with1/4 in. steel pins, again the end has a small rod welded to it to hold the steel pommel. again no habaki and a very thick steel bolster. this one is built to take it. again, a differentially hardened steel blade, but this one was professionally polished. traditional dha/darb with 3-4in blind stub tangs worked on the battlefield for centuries, i'd not be afraid of using one like that, as long as the resin was in good shape... i've also seen them where the tang is actually a rod welded to the ricasso of the blade and ground down. avoid them like the plague. they can break under light handling and the flying blade knows no mercy. p.s. - nice picture of the wielder. the dha/darb is usually a one handed weapon, the long grip is used as a balance, and is normally held just behind the bolster. draw cuts are more normal as opposed to heavy chopping. they are designed for unarmoured or lightly armoured opponents in lightweight clothing. cutting down a tree is also not recommended. Last edited by kronckew; 8th August 2009 at 08:39 PM.

7th August 2009, 06:50 PM	#4
trenchwarfare Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 385	Sword looks new. The habaki has a number on it. I smell China. They're making everything else, why not these? Thousands of copies, fakes, and fantasies, coming out of China. All forged. Amazing what you can accomplish, with modern technology, and free (slave) labor. It would boggle the mind, to know how many newly made swords, are in China as we speak. Er, type.

7th August 2009, 07:06 PM	#5
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	This is a new sword of course, it is advertized as such, but it is not necessarily Chinese. A number of Thai firms and craftsmen are producing new dha and other swords, ranging from poor to quite good quality. Fearn, the HI khukuri don't have habaki per se, just much larger bolsters. Traditional khukri were constructed in the same manner but with smaller bolsters/ferrules. These serve to reinforce the hilt-blade connection. The habaki serves only as a locking mechanism for the blade to sit in the scabbard without touching the scabbard's inner surfaces. I think in the dha above the habaki is there purely as a stylistic feature, mimicking in a way the more popular nihonto. Emanuel

7th August 2009, 08:07 PM	#7
trenchwarfare Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 385	Delete

7th August 2009, 09:33 PM	#8
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	This looks like a nicely-made modern daab. I very much doubt it is from China - as has been said there are a number of smiths around Thailand that still make daab. It looks quite solid. Please let us know how it feels once you have it in hand. Not a bad start to sword collecting, I think.

8th August 2009, 03:22 AM	#9
harimauhk Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 88	I actually have it here with me Very sharp point, good slicing ability from the belly and the rattan wrap looks great. Since it was sent out directly from Chiang Mai, I really doubt it was made in China. It appears to be solid and handles quite well. Interesting point about the habaki--I thought I had quite a traditionally made darb on my hands! Thanks everyone! BTW, is there any way I can find out what kind of tang this sword has?

8th August 2009, 04:09 AM	#10
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Try to remove the handle It's a bit of work unwrapping the rattan, removing the brass ferrule and habaki, and even then the handle might be glued. Ask the seller. If you feel this is a good product and you say so, he shouldn't have any problem answering and giving you other construction details.

9th August 2009, 02:09 AM	#13
harimauhk Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 88	Hi kronckew, Nice darbs I have some strong magnets lying around so I'll try to work out what kind of tang I have later. That's a great idea (and one I never would have thought of). Thanks. The wielder in the pic is me. I realize the darb is a one-handed weapon in most cases, and I also realize it is best used in a draw cut--trying to chop through a water bottle with it did not work, but it cuts like a razor.

9th August 2009, 04:59 AM	#15
Nathaniel Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 865	Oh, and the habaki....true it's not traditional, but you do see this on some Thai hybrid swords due to Japanese influence...I will say though with the habaki, it does fit very nicely in the scabbard...and the overall finish work on the scabbard inside is much better...the aranyik ones are very rounghly done...in a generic shape to fit the different sword tips they make...so the aranyik blades all rattle in their scabbard and slide out very easily if tipped upside down...versus the Lampang one can be tipped upside down without any problem

9th August 2009, 05:31 AM	#16
harimauhk Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 88	Hi Nathaniel, Thanks for your input. I definitely like my darb and the sword will definitely not fall out of the scabbard. BTW, the pic of the guy with the sword is me. Dammit, every time I take a pic with one of my blades, someone gets a laugh out of it Sent this pic of me with my badik to a friend of mine and she thanked me for making her laugh and helping relieve her exam stress. Seller just got back to me and said it is definitely full-tang construction! I knew I had a keeper on my hands. Attached Images

9th August 2009, 04:03 PM	#17
Nathaniel Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 865	harimauhk, Ooops, guess you saw my comment before I edited it...Hey I've had some good laughs to from others when I struck a deep kung fu pose in front of a Taoist temple :P but hey you got to have fun posing... Yes, I think this is one of the better made daab in thailand. Some Thai forum members like Puff might be able to say more than I have about the smith, etc... I thought of another forum discussion which might be of interst...you can see an earlier model of the Lampang daab: http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001291.html Also if you look on ebay there is another Lampang daab...not by the same seller your bought...but another seller from Bangkok....

9th August 2009, 04:22 PM	#18
Nathaniel Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 865	I should amend my comment and say the above regards the basic mass produced aranyik daab for the general tourist market...I understand they have to make what sells and keeps their business afloat... Case in Point: Khun Dang's beautiful Cusom Aranyik Daab: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=9228 And Jason's http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ht=custom+daab

9th August 2009, 04:58 PM	#20
harimauhk Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 88	Thanks Nathaniel, I actually sent the seller the pics from cozun.com to help him out since Thai is his first language. I can't find the other Lampang daab on eBay though. Could you link me to it through PM?

11th August 2009, 05:26 AM	#21
wilked aka Khun Deng Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oahu, Hawaii Posts: 166	Nicely made modern darb up there in Chiang Mai - I just got back. And thanks Nathaniel for that link to Jason's piece. What a beauty!! Serge definitely has become the go-to guy out there for custom made work. Dan