Youtube video on Classical Greek armor in the Philippines

Oliver Pinchot · 17th January 2021, 08:22 PM

An academic approach to...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5q8V...e=emb_err_woyt

Battara · 18th January 2021, 12:50 AM

Well I would say there are some issues with the information in this video.

I am intrigued with the armour and would have loved to hear more and it would have been great to see where they were found and the background.

However, one "axe" was actually a Tibetan grigung, also known as a kartika. The other piece also looks Tibetan as well.

The helmets do have a Filipino motif, but again need background research on them.

I guess I question the authenticity, research, and provenance of these pieces.

Sorry but I am extremely skeptical, also because I know that many, many fakes are made in the Philippines right now, ie. lantakas.

Oliver Pinchot · 18th January 2021, 04:55 AM

This is the point.
These are newly made pieces with confused motifs that have
been recently patinated. Nonetheless, people who no basis whatsoever in
forms, decoration or age blithely harvest data from the net; this is the result.

Ian · 19th January 2021, 03:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

I guess I question the authenticity, research, and provenance of these pieces.

Sorry but I am extremely skeptical, also because I know that many, many fakes are made in the Philippines right now, ie. lantakas.

Absolutely. These are recently made and patinated to look old, as noted by Oliver. There is more and more of this stuff coming out of the Philippines.

Rick · 19th January 2021, 05:50 AM

The first look at these sitting on a flea market table did it for me. I expect they're fakes from China.

Kubur · 19th January 2021, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

Absolutely. These are recently made and patinated to look old, as noted by Oliver. There is more and more of this stuff coming out of the Philippines.

It's the proof that Philipino and Chinese are extremely clever, if stupid people are ready to pay for these things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oliver Pinchot

An academic approach to...

Of course, I'm sure that's ironic. These American TV shows are made by cheap journalists. The same who are doing TV shows about Egyptian and Maya pyramids made by Aliens/ET. I's just crap TV. Of course, sometimes, scholars are involved, I think scholars are like us, some are good, some are bad...

Gonzoadler · 19th January 2021, 11:51 AM

This documentation is like a trash movie, unintentionally funny and stupid.
The showed pieces are cheap reproductions and fantasy items, I think that is clear.

Ian · 19th January 2021, 01:21 PM

The video is very poor quality, amateur Filipino work. It's basically a Powerpoint slideshow with (heavily accented) voice over. The low resolution images make everything look out of focus. It's unlikely this was made for local Philippines television--it would have been narrated in Tagalog, Cebuano, or another native language. I think it was made for youtube.

Despite this negative example, there are several very talented film makers in the Philippines.

mariusgmioc · 19th January 2021, 02:00 PM

Maybe going a little beyond the subject of this thread...

The only reliable method of dating iron objects is radiocarbon dating.
And this is very expensive and in most cases completely inaccessible.

Even more difficult is dating bronze objects. The few methods used (voltammetric, metalographic, radiocarbon) are very expensive, hardly accessible and do not give very reliable results.

At the same time, various techniques of aging metals are available that give results practically undistinguishable from natural aging processes.

So there should be no surprise that the antique metal objects market is literally flooded with fakes that in some cases can fool the most versed experts.

17th January 2021, 08:22 PM	#1
Oliver Pinchot Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 457	Youtube video on Classical Greek armor in the Philippines An academic approach to... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5q8V...e=emb_err_woyt

18th January 2021, 12:50 AM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,226	Well I would say there are some issues with the information in this video. I am intrigued with the armour and would have loved to hear more and it would have been great to see where they were found and the background. However, one "axe" was actually a Tibetan grigung, also known as a kartika. The other piece also looks Tibetan as well. The helmets do have a Filipino motif, but again need background research on them. I guess I question the authenticity, research, and provenance of these pieces. Sorry but I am extremely skeptical, also because I know that many, many fakes are made in the Philippines right now, ie. lantakas.

18th January 2021, 04:55 AM	#3
Oliver Pinchot Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 457	This is the point. These are newly made pieces with confused motifs that have been recently patinated. Nonetheless, people who no basis whatsoever in forms, decoration or age blithely harvest data from the net; this is the result.

19th January 2021, 05:50 AM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	The first look at these sitting on a flea market table did it for me. I expect they're fakes from China.

19th January 2021, 11:51 AM	#7
Gonzoadler Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Location: Germany Posts: 244	This documentation is like a trash movie, unintentionally funny and stupid. The showed pieces are cheap reproductions and fantasy items, I think that is clear.

19th January 2021, 01:21 PM	#8
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,207	The video is very poor quality, amateur Filipino work. It's basically a Powerpoint slideshow with (heavily accented) voice over. The low resolution images make everything look out of focus. It's unlikely this was made for local Philippines television--it would have been narrated in Tagalog, Cebuano, or another native language. I think it was made for youtube. Despite this negative example, there are several very talented film makers in the Philippines.

19th January 2021, 02:00 PM	#9
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,903	Maybe going a little beyond the subject of this thread... The only reliable method of dating iron objects is radiocarbon dating. And this is very expensive and in most cases completely inaccessible. Even more difficult is dating bronze objects. The few methods used (voltammetric, metalographic, radiocarbon) are very expensive, hardly accessible and do not give very reliable results. At the same time, various techniques of aging metals are available that give results practically undistinguishable from natural aging processes. So there should be no surprise that the antique metal objects market is literally flooded with fakes that in some cases can fool the most versed experts.