Kacip

A. G. Maisey · 30th November 2014, 09:48 PM

What we have here are Javanese betel nut scissors.

They are called "kacip".

The blades are steel, the handles are silver, they are no longer made, they are ridiculously expensive, and the value of any of the ones pictured here would buy a pretty decent complete keris.

The single one pictured by itself is a figure of Semar, with articulated arms.

The largest and the smallest are pictured together to give an idea of size range.

Sajen · 30th November 2014, 10:38 PM

Thank you for sharing Alan. I also have a decent kacip collection but have it stored somewhere, when I find it I will post some pictures. Nice that you have stained them, I have seen a few with pamor. You show some from Madura, Java and Bali when I am not wrong. And very nice that all still have the silver sleeves at the handles.

Regards,
Detlef

A. G. Maisey · 30th November 2014, 11:12 PM

Kacip made of pamor are new, when these appear to be old, they have been processed to make them appear thus. They started to appear when prices went crazy on these things a few years ago. These pamor kacip are definitely specifically manufactured souvenir items.

We don't really need any inside info , nor special understanding to realise this:- the purpose of kacip is to cut:- steel is hard, pamor is soft. Do we make scissors from hard material or soft material?

Genuine kacip are no longer made.

Why?

Because people have come to realise the physical damage that sirih does and it has simply gone out of favour.

Frankly, I cannot distinguish between kacip from various places, but all of these were bought in Jawa, and most were bought privately from ordinary people, not dealers, some came from Pare and Malang in Jatim, some came from Solo.

None have been stained, nor have they been cleaned, they are exactly as I bought them.

Athanase · 12th March 2016, 05:41 PM

One of my 7 Kacip (6 javanese or balinese and 1 burmese) is very similar to one of yours. It was purchased in the fifties in Jakarta by its previous owner.
But on the internet I have often read that inlaid kacip with lion or horse design have a Balinese origin.

I have not found on the forum more topic about the kacip. I'm surprised because they http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attach...49205&stc=1are a very aesthetic objects and sometimes very sophisticated.

Athanase · 27th March 2016, 09:02 PM

Another Kacip from my collection, (17cm, iron, silver and brass).
I suspect that at the origin there wasn't the crest brass or silver on the head.

Sajen · 19th March 2017, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

I also have a decent kacip collection but have it stored somewhere, when I find it I will post some pictures.

Finally found them!

Sajen · 19th March 2017, 03:56 PM

And here some from India.

Sajen · 19th March 2017, 04:05 PM

And here a very rare one from South China.

mariusgmioc · 20th March 2017, 03:03 PM

Very interesting topic!

I had to check with Wikipedia to learn what Betel nuts are (apparently they are called Areca Nuts and Betel nuts is a colloquial misnomer).

Sajen · 20th March 2017, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

I had to check with Wikipedia to learn waht Betel nuts are (apparently they are called Areca Nuts and Betel nust is a colloquial misnomer).

Hi Marius,

in Indonesia it's just called pinang (sirih) or kapur, it was used everywhere in South-East-Asia, in many parts it's now forbidden (Thailand), India is still a hot spot, in Indonesia it's still used in rural aeras, I know that it's still very common on Halmahera for example, you can see it by the red tooth of the users.

Regards,
Detlef

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Areca_catechu

mariusgmioc · 20th March 2017, 04:34 PM

Thank you Detlef!

Now, I remember seing them in Indonesia's markets but I didn't know what they were. Anyhow, with the exception of pineapple, bananas and oranges, I didn't recognize any of the fruits I have seen there.

Sajen · 20th March 2017, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Anyhow, with the exception of pineapple, bananas and oranges, I didn't recognize any of the fruits I have seen there.

You should have tried them, special Durian!

Marcus · 20th March 2017, 11:18 PM

At this link on my web page you can see the process of making a quid and my collection of artifacts. There are also links to scientific articles:
http://papke.med.ufl.edu/betelresearch.html

Sajen · 20th March 2017, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus

At this link on my web page you can see the process of making a quid and my collection of artifacts. There are also links to scientific articles:
http://papke.med.ufl.edu/betelresearch.html

Interesting and a nice collection!

Sajen · 25th March 2017, 05:20 PM

Found some more!

Rafngard · 25th March 2017, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

You should have tried them, special Durian!

Stinky but delicious!

Have fun,
Leif

Sajen · 25th March 2017, 11:55 PM

I love durian, when you find the right fruit it's delicious. I even like the smell, you know from far already that they get sold somewhere.

30th November 2014, 09:48 PM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,894	Kacip What we have here are Javanese betel nut scissors. They are called "kacip". The blades are steel, the handles are silver, they are no longer made, they are ridiculously expensive, and the value of any of the ones pictured here would buy a pretty decent complete keris. The single one pictured by itself is a figure of Semar, with articulated arms. The largest and the smallest are pictured together to give an idea of size range. Attached Images

12th March 2016, 05:41 PM	#4
Athanase Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Paris (France) Posts: 408	One of my 7 Kacip (6 javanese or balinese and 1 burmese) is very similar to one of yours. It was purchased in the fifties in Jakarta by its previous owner. But on the internet I have often read that inlaid kacip with lion or horse design have a Balinese origin. I have not found on the forum more topic about the kacip. I'm surprised because they http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attach...49205&stc=1are a very aesthetic objects and sometimes very sophisticated. Attached Images

27th March 2016, 09:02 PM	#5
Athanase Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Paris (France) Posts: 408	Another Kacip from my collection, (17cm, iron, silver and brass). I suspect that at the origin there wasn't the crest brass or silver on the head. Attached Images

19th March 2017, 03:56 PM	#7
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	And here some from India. Attached Images

19th March 2017, 04:05 PM	#8
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	And here a very rare one from South China. Attached Images

30th November 2014, 10:38 PM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	Thank you for sharing Alan. I also have a decent kacip collection but have it stored somewhere, when I find it I will post some pictures. Nice that you have stained them, I have seen a few with pamor. You show some from Madura, Java and Bali when I am not wrong. And very nice that all still have the silver sleeves at the handles. Regards, Detlef

30th November 2014, 11:12 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,894	Kacip made of pamor are new, when these appear to be old, they have been processed to make them appear thus. They started to appear when prices went crazy on these things a few years ago. These pamor kacip are definitely specifically manufactured souvenir items. We don't really need any inside info , nor special understanding to realise this:- the purpose of kacip is to cut:- steel is hard, pamor is soft. Do we make scissors from hard material or soft material? Genuine kacip are no longer made. Why? Because people have come to realise the physical damage that sirih does and it has simply gone out of favour. Frankly, I cannot distinguish between kacip from various places, but all of these were bought in Jawa, and most were bought privately from ordinary people, not dealers, some came from Pare and Malang in Jatim, some came from Solo. None have been stained, nor have they been cleaned, they are exactly as I bought them.

20th March 2017, 03:03 PM	#9
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,903	Very interesting topic! I had to check with Wikipedia to learn what Betel nuts are (apparently they are called Areca Nuts and Betel nuts is a colloquial misnomer). Last edited by mariusgmioc; 20th March 2017 at 04:29 PM.

20th March 2017, 04:34 PM	#11
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,903	Thank you Detlef! Now, I remember seing them in Indonesia's markets but I didn't know what they were. Anyhow, with the exception of pineapple, bananas and oranges, I didn't recognize any of the fruits I have seen there.

20th March 2017, 11:18 PM	#13
Marcus Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 420	Betel quid and Areca At this link on my web page you can see the process of making a quid and my collection of artifacts. There are also links to scientific articles: http://papke.med.ufl.edu/betelresearch.html

25th March 2017, 05:20 PM	#15
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	Found some more! Attached Images

25th March 2017, 11:55 PM	#17
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	I love durian, when you find the right fruit it's delicious. I even like the smell, you know from far already that they get sold somewhere.