Mexican Rurales saber 1870s

Jim McDougall · 20th January 2023, 08:43 PM

This well beaten saber is believed to be from one of the corps of 'Guardia Rural' (rurales) which were constabulary forces in Mexico from 1860s. This force was created by presidente Benito Juarez in 1861. These forces though under federal jurisdiction operated as auxiliary to those forces, however typically remaining largely autonomous as located in remote areas.

They acquired a rather notorious reputation as brutal, and are said to seldom take prisoners, but most always, 'got their man'. During the French 'intervention' they were essentially disbanded, however with the reconstruction of the Republic in 1870s, Porfirio Diaz reinstituted the Rurales forces in 1877.

While mostly situated in the Mexico City sphere, there were units of these Rurales developed in many of the Mexican states farther out and these were somewhat independent of federal control.

The Rurales overall were described as 'heavily armed carrying cavalry saber, Remington carbines, lassos and pistols'.

With my example, which is as noted, pretty rough, it appears the guard has been bent by perhaps trampling by a horse? The pommel is embellished with a centavo, which is deformed and cannot see date.

The guard is marked with RM (Republica Mexico) and sunburst. I am uncertain of the marking on the blade forte.

While it is tempting to presume this saber is of the Porfirio period (1877) it does not have the familiar RM with liberty cap on the blade, nor the more often encountered AC Mexico.

I think this is earlier (from late 1860s and Juarista) and most likely from rural regions in outer Mexican state.

I would appreciate any thoughts or input, and especially other examples (less 'used').

urbanspaceman · 25th January 2023, 12:13 PM

Hello Jim. This is a fine piece of history... actually, two fine pieces of history: the sword and your narrative, both of which which are greatly appreciated; thank-you for the posting.
The sabre is an attractive sword and - as is your want - enshrines many possibilities in its beaten condition.
It does raise a question however: what is the story behind the centavo embellishment? Is it purely decorative, or is it just a practical addition to a loose grip? Any thoughts?

Jim McDougall · 25th January 2023, 08:55 PM

Thank you so much for the thoughtful entry Keith! It seems not a resounding interest in Mexican history out there overall, so much appreciated.
Actually I'm not too experienced in coins, and this one is so defaced its hard to tell what this is or a date.
My guess is that it might be in the realm of a good luck item, or simply fancy embellishment.
In rural areas, there was a lot of innovation in refurbishing and repurposing weaponry, so we can only speculate the situation with this old saber.

It seems I've come across other Mexican swords like this, in similar condition, so rough handling was not unusual.

fernando · 26th January 2023, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by urbanspaceman

... It does raise a question however: what is the story behind the centavo embellishment? Is it purely decorative, or is it just a practical addition to a loose grip? Any thoughts?

The problem is that Mexico minted zillions of different centavos coins, from the XIX century to just the other day. We fall asleep before we finish checking them all.
This one seems to gather conditions to be the same as in that pommel; letter composition and positioning. So a later addition to a loose grip could be a good thought.

-

Jim McDougall · 26th January 2023, 08:08 PM

There can be no doubt this saber had a quite extended working life, and very hard one as can be seen by its battered character. In Mexico, as noted,many regions are of course quite rural, and poor. A weapon, despite condition, would be used as required. While this one clearly had issuance of some type at some point early in its life, but later possibly picked up and 'reserviced'.

At this point, perhaps whoever worked on this added the centavo coin, which in some sense may have been perceived as a lucky charm. The centavos which began being minted in the '2nd Mexican Empire' 1863-1867, were with one (copper) and 5,10,50 in silver. By the time of the Mexican Revolution the currency issues with paper money being almost worthless.
With coinage, the biggest problem was the coins being melted for the silver, and often the bullion being stolen etc. before making it to the mints. The circumstances were volatile to say the least.

It would be hard to estimate the date range of this sword by the coin as it is clear this was added at some point when the sword was worked on. Still, its history reflects the very rugged and intriguing history of Mexico.

Thanks very much Keith and Fernando for the input.

Bayowolf · 4th February 2023, 09:11 PM

IMO, the marking is from the 1870s. This is the style marking commonly seen stamped on Remington Rolling blocks of that era that went to Mexico. Cool sword.

Jim McDougall · 5th February 2023, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayowolf

IMO, the marking is from the 1870s. This is the style marking commonly seen stamped on Remington Rolling blocks of that era that went to Mexico. Cool sword.

Thank you so much!
While pretty well beaten, this has some history and Mexican history is not a well traveled subject. I do recall the Remington's and these weapons all remained in use well past 1900 into the Mexican Revolution.

20th January 2023, 08:43 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,940	Mexican Rurales saber 1870s This well beaten saber is believed to be from one of the corps of 'Guardia Rural' (rurales) which were constabulary forces in Mexico from 1860s. This force was created by presidente Benito Juarez in 1861. These forces though under federal jurisdiction operated as auxiliary to those forces, however typically remaining largely autonomous as located in remote areas. They acquired a rather notorious reputation as brutal, and are said to seldom take prisoners, but most always, 'got their man'. During the French 'intervention' they were essentially disbanded, however with the reconstruction of the Republic in 1870s, Porfirio Diaz reinstituted the Rurales forces in 1877. While mostly situated in the Mexico City sphere, there were units of these Rurales developed in many of the Mexican states farther out and these were somewhat independent of federal control. The Rurales overall were described as 'heavily armed carrying cavalry saber, Remington carbines, lassos and pistols'. With my example, which is as noted, pretty rough, it appears the guard has been bent by perhaps trampling by a horse? The pommel is embellished with a centavo, which is deformed and cannot see date. The guard is marked with RM (Republica Mexico) and sunburst. I am uncertain of the marking on the blade forte. While it is tempting to presume this saber is of the Porfirio period (1877) it does not have the familiar RM with liberty cap on the blade, nor the more often encountered AC Mexico. I think this is earlier (from late 1860s and Juarista) and most likely from rural regions in outer Mexican state. I would appreciate any thoughts or input, and especially other examples (less 'used'). Attached Images

25th January 2023, 12:13 PM	#2
urbanspaceman Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Tyneside. North-East England Posts: 530	Money money money Hello Jim. This is a fine piece of history... actually, two fine pieces of history: the sword and your narrative, both of which which are greatly appreciated; thank-you for the posting. The sabre is an attractive sword and - as is your want - enshrines many possibilities in its beaten condition. It does raise a question however: what is the story behind the centavo embellishment? Is it purely decorative, or is it just a practical addition to a loose grip? Any thoughts?

4th February 2023, 09:11 PM	#6
Bayowolf Member Join Date: May 2022 Posts: 18	RM marking IMO, the marking is from the 1870s. This is the style marking commonly seen stamped on Remington Rolling blocks of that era that went to Mexico. Cool sword.

25th January 2023, 08:55 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,940	Thank you so much for the thoughtful entry Keith! It seems not a resounding interest in Mexican history out there overall, so much appreciated. Actually I'm not too experienced in coins, and this one is so defaced its hard to tell what this is or a date. My guess is that it might be in the realm of a good luck item, or simply fancy embellishment. In rural areas, there was a lot of innovation in refurbishing and repurposing weaponry, so we can only speculate the situation with this old saber. It seems I've come across other Mexican swords like this, in similar condition, so rough handling was not unusual.

26th January 2023, 08:08 PM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,940	There can be no doubt this saber had a quite extended working life, and very hard one as can be seen by its battered character. In Mexico, as noted,many regions are of course quite rural, and poor. A weapon, despite condition, would be used as required. While this one clearly had issuance of some type at some point early in its life, but later possibly picked up and 'reserviced'. At this point, perhaps whoever worked on this added the centavo coin, which in some sense may have been perceived as a lucky charm. The centavos which began being minted in the '2nd Mexican Empire' 1863-1867, were with one (copper) and 5,10,50 in silver. By the time of the Mexican Revolution the currency issues with paper money being almost worthless. With coinage, the biggest problem was the coins being melted for the silver, and often the bullion being stolen etc. before making it to the mints. The circumstances were volatile to say the least. It would be hard to estimate the date range of this sword by the coin as it is clear this was added at some point when the sword was worked on. Still, its history reflects the very rugged and intriguing history of Mexico. Thanks very much Keith and Fernando for the input.