A question of Kachin dao

Gavin Nugent · 17th December 2008, 12:45 PM

I have a question that may or may not be simply answered.

Of all the Kachin dao that I have seen and handled the scabbard does contour the spine of the blade perfectly but why does the scabbard length go far beyond the length of the actual dao tip. In some cases quite a long way? I will continue to sit and ponder this until someone can point out this reason to me.

Gav

Mark · 18th December 2008, 08:55 PM

My best guess is that it assures no water gets trapped on the blade, important in a monsoon area. I think the drip tip, and the open scabbard in general, also serves this function to carry any water as far away from the blade as possible.

fearn · 19th December 2008, 11:47 PM

I'm not entirely sure, but another reason for a long sheath is balance. Basically, when the dao is in the sheath, it's got a heavy weight (the hilt) sitting out front, which tends to pull the sheath down and forward when it's carried horizontally. This is bad, as the dao will then fall forward and out. I found this out the hard way when I tried to make a "dha" out of a rehilted machete, and the sheath dumped the blade first time I picked it up.

One thing I've noticed is that there are two ways of balancing a sword, both in the hilt and the sheath. One is to stick a weight on the end, and the other is to increase its length. Many swords have weighted pommels on the end of the pommel and a chape on the end of the chape. In south east Asia, with the dhas and daos, there is the tendency to lengthen handles (and probably sheaths) to balance the sword properly.

My 0.0002 cents,

F

Gavin Nugent · 20th December 2008, 03:45 AM

Great deductions gents, thank you for sharing, both very well thought out answers, both making perfect reasons for this.

Another question that raises it's head now it the mention of two different types of dao, one being shorter for daily duties, the other longer for war like expeditions.

Can anyone within the forum supply side by side comparrisons of this notation? With scabbards would be good too.

Gav

Mark · 23rd December 2008, 03:56 PM

The only side-by-side descriptions I have found in the literature are those in Egerton, "An Illustrated Handbook of Indian Arms" (1880) (republished in 1986), and specifically the expanded edition that covers also Burma. However, Egerton is a bit confusing, as I believe he had a tendency to conflate or confuse different peoples, and to generalize too widely based on a few narrow examples. For example, those he describes as "Hkampti" Shan sound more like Jingpaw Kachin - for example he notes that the "Hkampti" wear their swords slightly in front, in a "sling made of split rattan," which sounds rather like the rig of a Kachin dao. But he quotes another writer, whose original work I have not been able to find, describing the two kinds of Kachin dao:

"With reference to the arms in use generally among these wild tribes [of the Assam Hills], Mr. Lewin ["Wild Races of South-Eastern India"] remarks: 'the "dao" is the hill knife used universally throughout the country. It is a blade about 18 inches long, narrow at the haft, square and broad at the top, pointless and sharpened on one side only. The blade is set in a handle of wood, a bamboo root being considered the best.'" P. 88. Though the scabbard is not described, this clearly refers to what we are calling here the "Kachin dao:"

According to Mr. Lewin (per Egerton), "[t]he fighting dao is differently shaped. This is a long pointless sword, set in a wooden or ebony handle;it is very heavy, and a blow of almost incredible power can be given by one of these weapons." P. 88. Here he seems to be referring to what I call the "sword dao:"

Regarding scabbards, Egerton states that "[t]he ordinary hill 'dao' is generally stuck naked into the waist band on the right hip, but the fighting 'dao' is provided with a scabbard and worn at the waist." P. 88. I don't quite know what to make of this comment, as the Kachin dao is of course routinely worn with a scabbard, slung across the shoulder, as is the sword dao. I fact, assuming that by "worn at the waist" Egerton means hanging from a belt or stuck in a sash, I have not seen another such configuration describedption in the literature or in a photograph (always hung over the shoulder or across the chest):

All-in-all, the literature evidence is very scant on these two weapons, and it could well be that they were habitually used by different peoples for the same purposes, rather than by the same peoples for different purposes. Unfortunately the Western literature suffers greatly from the distorting lens of the "noblesse oblige" condescension rampant among colonial-era writers. Not a lot of fine distinctions were made among the "wild tribes."

17th December 2008, 12:45 PM	#1
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	A question of Kachin dao I have a question that may or may not be simply answered. Of all the Kachin dao that I have seen and handled the scabbard does contour the spine of the blade perfectly but why does the scabbard length go far beyond the length of the actual dao tip. In some cases quite a long way? I will continue to sit and ponder this until someone can point out this reason to me. Gav

19th December 2008, 11:47 PM	#3
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	I'm not entirely sure, but another reason for a long sheath is balance. Basically, when the dao is in the sheath, it's got a heavy weight (the hilt) sitting out front, which tends to pull the sheath down and forward when it's carried horizontally. This is bad, as the dao will then fall forward and out. I found this out the hard way when I tried to make a "dha" out of a rehilted machete, and the sheath dumped the blade first time I picked it up. One thing I've noticed is that there are two ways of balancing a sword, both in the hilt and the sheath. One is to stick a weight on the end, and the other is to increase its length. Many swords have weighted pommels on the end of the pommel and a chape on the end of the chape. In south east Asia, with the dhas and daos, there is the tendency to lengthen handles (and probably sheaths) to balance the sword properly. My 0.0002 cents, F Last edited by fearn; 20th December 2008 at 04:44 AM.

20th December 2008, 03:45 AM	#4
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Thanks Chaps Great deductions gents, thank you for sharing, both very well thought out answers, both making perfect reasons for this. Another question that raises it's head now it the mention of two different types of dao, one being shorter for daily duties, the other longer for war like expeditions. Can anyone within the forum supply side by side comparrisons of this notation? With scabbards would be good too. Gav

18th December 2008, 08:55 PM	#2
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	My best guess is that it assures no water gets trapped on the blade, important in a monsoon area. I think the drip tip, and the open scabbard in general, also serves this function to carry any water as far away from the blade as possible.

23rd December 2008, 03:56 PM	#5
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	The only side-by-side descriptions I have found in the literature are those in Egerton, "An Illustrated Handbook of Indian Arms" (1880) (republished in 1986), and specifically the expanded edition that covers also Burma. However, Egerton is a bit confusing, as I believe he had a tendency to conflate or confuse different peoples, and to generalize too widely based on a few narrow examples. For example, those he describes as "Hkampti" Shan sound more like Jingpaw Kachin - for example he notes that the "Hkampti" wear their swords slightly in front, in a "sling made of split rattan," which sounds rather like the rig of a Kachin dao. But he quotes another writer, whose original work I have not been able to find, describing the two kinds of Kachin dao: "With reference to the arms in use generally among these wild tribes [of the Assam Hills], Mr. Lewin ["Wild Races of South-Eastern India"] remarks: 'the "dao" is the hill knife used universally throughout the country. It is a blade about 18 inches long, narrow at the haft, square and broad at the top, pointless and sharpened on one side only. The blade is set in a handle of wood, a bamboo root being considered the best.'" P. 88. Though the scabbard is not described, this clearly refers to what we are calling here the "Kachin dao:" According to Mr. Lewin (per Egerton), "[t]he fighting dao is differently shaped. This is a long pointless sword, set in a wooden or ebony handle;it is very heavy, and a blow of almost incredible power can be given by one of these weapons." P. 88. Here he seems to be referring to what I call the "sword dao:" Regarding scabbards, Egerton states that "[t]he ordinary hill 'dao' is generally stuck naked into the waist band on the right hip, but the fighting 'dao' is provided with a scabbard and worn at the waist." P. 88. I don't quite know what to make of this comment, as the Kachin dao is of course routinely worn with a scabbard, slung across the shoulder, as is the sword dao. I fact, assuming that by "worn at the waist" Egerton means hanging from a belt or stuck in a sash, I have not seen another such configuration describedption in the literature or in a photograph (always hung over the shoulder or across the chest): All-in-all, the literature evidence is very scant on these two weapons, and it could well be that they were habitually used by different peoples for the same purposes, rather than by the same peoples for different purposes. Unfortunately the Western literature suffers greatly from the distorting lens of the "noblesse oblige" condescension rampant among colonial-era writers. Not a lot of fine distinctions were made among the "wild tribes."