Interesting pictures 2

Flavio · 3rd April 2007, 05:05 PM

Hi all, here are some other pictures from the Smithsonian site, from different parts of the World.

References (for the moro's pictures I know only that are clearly Moro

):
Picture 1: Moro (WOOOWWW WHAT A CAMPILAN!!!!)
Picture 2: Man in Costume with Necklaces, Silver Ear Plugs, and Tibetan Sword 1954
Picture 3: Culture: Tagin ? Tibet. Boy in Costume of Mithun (Wild Cow) Hide Vest, Bamboo and Mithun Hide Shield, Cowrie Belt, Bamboo Penis Shield, Braided Cane Arm Shield, and Tibetan Hat and Sword 1954 (NOTE THE LAMINATION!!!!)
Picture 4: Culture: Abor Milang Tibet. Ang (Chief) in Costume with Cane War Helmet Decorated with Bear Skin and Two Boar's Tusks, Tibetan Ornaments, Sword, And Scabbard 1954
Picture 5: Culture: Abor Padam. Man in Costume with Necklaces, Sword, and Scabbard 1954
Picture 6: Culture: Sinhalese. Portrait of Mr C. P. Dias, Sinhalese Christian and Interpreter, In Costume with Medallions and Sword n.d.
Picture 7: Culture: Garo. Man in Traditional Ceremonial War Costume with Woven Cane Shield and Sword 1954 (SWORD NEVER SEEN BEFORE!!!)
Picture 8: Culture: Abor Minyong. Title: Man with Chin Tattoo and in Costume, Wearing Shoulder Pouch And Dao (Knife) in Scabbard and Holding Bow, Arrows, and Squirrel Caught in Bamboo and Reed Trap 1954
Picture 9: Moro
Picture 10: Moro

Mark · 3rd April 2007, 05:09 PM

Is there any mention of who these people are? The man in the fifth picture, judging by what one can see of the sword hilt, is of one of the "Kachin" tribes.

~Alaung_Hpaya~ · 3rd April 2007, 05:47 PM

2. 4. 5. and 8. Are probably all Abor ( Adi ) , although 2 is not defined as such , who inhabit the Assam himalayan foothills . They would be looseful defined ( incorrectly ) by the Burmese as either Naga or even Chin with whom they share cultural , dress and linguistic similarities as well as geographical overlap .

Apart from the Dao hilt the look ( accoutrement , facial features ) is definitely not Kachin .

~Alaung_Hpaya~ · 3rd April 2007, 06:57 PM

Some pictures of Kachin ( Jinghpaw et al ) in national costume with their dha / dao .

Out of all the nationalities in modern Myanmar the Kachin national dress always features a sword : I guess a bit like Scots with their Skean dubh. ( they can be of different variants but the norm is in silver with a lotus pommel which is seen in all parts of the Burmese north east and east 'highlands' ) . I am not sure whether the 'Shan' style sword was adopted for formal wear with the broader more tradtional Dao being reserved for actual use.

This is a picture of the KDA ( Kachin Defence Army ) flag.

Tim Simmons · 3rd April 2007, 07:39 PM

Great pictures Flavio. Bang goes that sure 19th century pre-fix. I doubt that will trouble most sellers.

Battara · 4th April 2007, 02:01 AM

I have visited this site in the past - love the site. Yes most of the pictures have descriptions, though some are not very "descriptive" or off. The labels come from the original tags from the turn of the century and later.

What I find nice about these pictures is that they prove some things, like for example, the Tibetans did keep their blades etched - note the stark laminations on these blades.

dennee · 4th April 2007, 03:39 AM

A number of those above are indeed probably Adi, but #2 appears to be Aka because of the characteristic earrings (although he lacks the common face-painting). A lot of Akas live east of Bhutan, explaining, I suppose, the Bhutanese sword and the gau handing from his neck.

It is interesting to see the good close-ups of Tibetan swords; they are better featured than in most old photos from Tibet itself and suggest the extent and importance of the trade in Tibetan arms (and bells, etc.) to the peoples to the south. Among these photos, you can see some of the less-decorated, presumably southeastern Tibetan types with circular or octagonal pommels, round-section grips and round, iron guards.

The Tibetans did apparently appreciate the aesthetics of their pattern-welded blades as suggested by the interesting patterns themselves and the difficulty of achieving some of them (and sometimes even the apparent weaknesses they might have caused the blades; I have one of the "jelly roll pattern with a forging flaw that runs partly around one of the swirls, running roughly perpendicular to the blade). The Tibetans may not have repeatedly etched their blades (or perhaps even initially, but I don't think anyone knows at this point), but they clearly avoided over-polishing that would obscure the contrast between the steels used. Among other polishing techniques of Bhutanese blades, Phuntsho Rapten describes rubbing them on a black gravel whetstone "to give ash-black color" and then rubbing with iron filings in a piece of hide "to increase its lustre." It may be that these two processes (or something else entirely!) heighten the contrast. Thubten Jigme Norbu and Colin Turnbull's book "Tibet" (p. 102) seems to distinguish between patterns that are more distinct and those that are fainter (in addition to the "jelly roll" pattern).

fearn · 5th April 2007, 02:34 AM

Flavio,

Great pics! I particularly like picture 7. We have seen that particular sword here before: it's called a milam, and it's in Stone's Glossary as a "Naga two-handed sword" although it's obviously not (Naga, or two-handed--it's a Garo one-hander). A couple of them have turned up here, although for some reason, I can't find the threads.

Still, it's good to see that sword held. From its design, I'd wondered how they used it. Now I know.

Thanks!

F

3rd April 2007, 05:05 PM	#1
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Interesting pictures 2 Hi all, here are some other pictures from the Smithsonian site, from different parts of the World. References (for the moro's pictures I know only that are clearly Moro ): Picture 1: Moro (WOOOWWW WHAT A CAMPILAN!!!!) Picture 2: Man in Costume with Necklaces, Silver Ear Plugs, and Tibetan Sword 1954 Picture 3: Culture: Tagin ? Tibet. Boy in Costume of Mithun (Wild Cow) Hide Vest, Bamboo and Mithun Hide Shield, Cowrie Belt, Bamboo Penis Shield, Braided Cane Arm Shield, and Tibetan Hat and Sword 1954 (NOTE THE LAMINATION!!!!) Picture 4: Culture: Abor Milang Tibet. Ang (Chief) in Costume with Cane War Helmet Decorated with Bear Skin and Two Boar's Tusks, Tibetan Ornaments, Sword, And Scabbard 1954 Picture 5: Culture: Abor Padam. Man in Costume with Necklaces, Sword, and Scabbard 1954 Picture 6: Culture: Sinhalese. Portrait of Mr C. P. Dias, Sinhalese Christian and Interpreter, In Costume with Medallions and Sword n.d. Picture 7: Culture: Garo. Man in Traditional Ceremonial War Costume with Woven Cane Shield and Sword 1954 (SWORD NEVER SEEN BEFORE!!!) Picture 8: Culture: Abor Minyong. Title: Man with Chin Tattoo and in Costume, Wearing Shoulder Pouch And Dao (Knife) in Scabbard and Holding Bow, Arrows, and Squirrel Caught in Bamboo and Reed Trap 1954 Picture 9: Moro Picture 10: Moro Attached Images Last edited by Flavio; 3rd April 2007 at 05:17 PM.

3rd April 2007, 05:09 PM	#2
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	Is there any mention of who these people are? The man in the fifth picture, judging by what one can see of the sword hilt, is of one of the "Kachin" tribes.

3rd April 2007, 05:47 PM	#3
~Alaung_Hpaya~ Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 65	2. 4. 5. and 8. Are probably all Abor ( Adi ) , although 2 is not defined as such , who inhabit the Assam himalayan foothills . They would be looseful defined ( incorrectly ) by the Burmese as either Naga or even Chin with whom they share cultural , dress and linguistic similarities as well as geographical overlap . Apart from the Dao hilt the look ( accoutrement , facial features ) is definitely not Kachin .

3rd April 2007, 06:57 PM	#4
~Alaung_Hpaya~ Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 65	Some pictures of Kachin ( Jinghpaw et al ) in national costume with their dha / dao . Out of all the nationalities in modern Myanmar the Kachin national dress always features a sword : I guess a bit like Scots with their Skean dubh. ( they can be of different variants but the norm is in silver with a lotus pommel which is seen in all parts of the Burmese north east and east 'highlands' ) . I am not sure whether the 'Shan' style sword was adopted for formal wear with the broader more tradtional Dao being reserved for actual use. This is a picture of the KDA ( Kachin Defence Army ) flag.

3rd April 2007, 07:39 PM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Great pictures Flavio. Bang goes that sure 19th century pre-fix. I doubt that will trouble most sellers.

4th April 2007, 02:01 AM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,226	I have visited this site in the past - love the site. Yes most of the pictures have descriptions, though some are not very "descriptive" or off. The labels come from the original tags from the turn of the century and later. What I find nice about these pictures is that they prove some things, like for example, the Tibetans did keep their blades etched - note the stark laminations on these blades.

4th April 2007, 03:39 AM	#7
dennee Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: College Park, MD Posts: 186	A number of those above are indeed probably Adi, but #2 appears to be Aka because of the characteristic earrings (although he lacks the common face-painting). A lot of Akas live east of Bhutan, explaining, I suppose, the Bhutanese sword and the gau handing from his neck. It is interesting to see the good close-ups of Tibetan swords; they are better featured than in most old photos from Tibet itself and suggest the extent and importance of the trade in Tibetan arms (and bells, etc.) to the peoples to the south. Among these photos, you can see some of the less-decorated, presumably southeastern Tibetan types with circular or octagonal pommels, round-section grips and round, iron guards. The Tibetans did apparently appreciate the aesthetics of their pattern-welded blades as suggested by the interesting patterns themselves and the difficulty of achieving some of them (and sometimes even the apparent weaknesses they might have caused the blades; I have one of the "jelly roll pattern with a forging flaw that runs partly around one of the swirls, running roughly perpendicular to the blade). The Tibetans may not have repeatedly etched their blades (or perhaps even initially, but I don't think anyone knows at this point), but they clearly avoided over-polishing that would obscure the contrast between the steels used. Among other polishing techniques of Bhutanese blades, Phuntsho Rapten describes rubbing them on a black gravel whetstone "to give ash-black color" and then rubbing with iron filings in a piece of hide "to increase its lustre." It may be that these two processes (or something else entirely!) heighten the contrast. Thubten Jigme Norbu and Colin Turnbull's book "Tibet" (p. 102) seems to distinguish between patterns that are more distinct and those that are fainter (in addition to the "jelly roll" pattern).

5th April 2007, 02:34 AM	#8
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Flavio, Great pics! I particularly like picture 7. We have seen that particular sword here before: it's called a milam, and it's in Stone's Glossary as a "Naga two-handed sword" although it's obviously not (Naga, or two-handed--it's a Garo one-hander). A couple of them have turned up here, although for some reason, I can't find the threads. Still, it's good to see that sword held. From its design, I'd wondered how they used it. Now I know. Thanks! F