Battle Axe for Comment

rickystl · 24th September 2011, 06:59 PM

Hello. This axe belongs to a fellow collector. Any idea of it's origin? Danish? Thanks for any comments. Rick.

Atlantia · 24th September 2011, 07:13 PM

Ello Rick,

Looks Indian to me mate.

Best
Gene

Zwielicht · 25th September 2011, 02:13 PM

I would, probably, suggest scandinavian origins: if you shall make a tangent at the middle point of edge, it won't be parallel to a handle, which could be quite unusual for an indian axe - but a common trait for, say, Viking-age scandinavian design. But, I must admit, I've seen much lesser of indian axes than scandinavian ones.

kronckew · 26th September 2011, 11:37 AM

some afghani axes tend to have copper inlayed bands at the eye socket/blade join area like this one. is the riveted copper back support a repair?

any dimensions?

rickystl · 26th September 2011, 03:31 PM

He mentions that the brass/copper on the back of the blade appears to be decoration. No sign of a break or repair. He's emailing me back with dimensions. If it wasn't for the copper/brass additions, it looks Danish or Saxon.

Atlantia · 26th September 2011, 07:00 PM

There have been a lot of similar to nigh identical axes coming out of India recently.
Even the shaft with the 'button' end looks Indian to me.
Here's a similar piece thats definately Indian.

rickystl · 27th September 2011, 03:41 PM

Hi Gene. Thanks for the photo. I'm begining to agree with you on the Indian origin. The thin, flat blade of this axe, which was the type used for shearing chain mail, makes me think European. Attached, are the dimensions. It's actually a fairly small axe. Wish I had an idea of it's age and value? But that's difficult not knowing it's origin. Hmmmm. I just don't know enough about these items. Maybe some others will see this Post and lend their opinions. Thanks, Rick.

Atlantia · 27th September 2011, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickystl

Hi Gene. Thanks for the photo. I'm begining to agree with you on the Indian origin. The thin, flat blade of this axe, which was the type used for shearing chain mail, makes me think European. Attached, are the dimensions. It's actually a fairly small axe. Wish I had an idea of it's age and value? But that's difficult not knowing it's origin. Hmmmm. I just don't know enough about these items. Maybe some others will see this Post and lend their opinions. Thanks, Rick.

Hi Rick,

I'll send you a PM, check you intray in about 10 mins

Best
Gene

broadaxe · 28th September 2011, 02:01 PM

Afghan.

rickystl · 28th September 2011, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by broadaxe

Afghan.

Hello. Is there a reason you believe it to be Afghan? Thanks.

broadaxe · 29th September 2011, 06:14 PM

Yes, I've encountered this kind before, several times. There was a period on ebay when a vendour from the USA had dozens of them (posted as Afghan), every one was unique (being hand made) but the general line were the same, as well as the decorations with inlaid brass or copper. Best source: I remember an article from the early 80's, days of the Soviet war in Afghanistan, and there were several photos of Mujahidun warriors packing this type of axe exactly. The fore & aft langets, long blade relative to its width are all Afghan characters.

rickystl · 30th September 2011, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by broadaxe

Yes, I've encountered this kind before, several times. There was a period on ebay when a vendour from the USA had dozens of them (posted as Afghan), every one was unique (being hand made) but the general line were the same, as well as the decorations with inlaid brass or copper. Best source: I remember an article from the early 80's, days of the Soviet war in Afghanistan, and there were several photos of Mujahidun warriors packing this type of axe exactly. The fore & aft langets, long blade relative to its width are all Afghan characters.

Thank you so much for your reply. Most helpful. Interesting. Rick.

Atlantia · 30th September 2011, 11:33 PM

It's possible, there are Afghan versions of Indian axe types.
Or put another way, there are very similar axes from both and as the origin of this type isn't clear it's entirely likely that it's used across a wide area.

I have to say that I've not seen this type definatively ID'd as Afghan, but I have seen examples of this type that I know came from India... Some of which are for sale from sellers IN India.
And Broadaxe has seen similar ones positively ID'd as Afghan.

The copper decoration isn't unusual, but the copper cover on the backstrap is unusual in my experience.
It might be possible to identify the area of origin from a specific feature, but I'm not sure anyone has actually done the research on these simple forms to that extent.

Look at the problems I encountered trying to ID my pair of axes!
So Ricks axe.... Indian, or Afghan?
Almost certainly one of those two I'd say

kronckew · 1st October 2011, 08:24 AM

many moons ago when these axes were used seriously in combat, the area of northern india/pakistan/afghanistan was not so specificly assigned to those countries, pakistan did not exist, and the area was essentially known as the hindu kush/northwest frontier and comprised of a large number of small tribal states. i would assume (always dangerous) that there was enough interaction between the inhabitants of the area (i.e. war) to spread a variety of weapons about the area, local copies and versions made in more dedicated manufacturing centres also would blur the boundaries (as would recently made repros). it is likely that an exact location of manufacture will remain unknown, but it appears to be from that general area. in any case it's a very nice axe and i'd be proud to have it in my collection.

one sort of interesting but obscure tidbit i came across was that if you map out the worlds population density & figure out the mathematical centroid, the point falls in the hindu kush.

broadaxe · 1st October 2011, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

many moons ago when these axes were used seriously in combat, the area of northern india/pakistan/afghanistan was not so specificly assigned to those countries, pakistan did not exist, and the area was essentially known as the hindu kush/northwest frontier and comprised of a large number of small tribal states. i would assume (always dangerous) that there was enough interaction between the inhabitants of the area (i.e. war) to spread a variety of weapons about the area, local copies and versions made in more dedicated manufacturing centres also would blur the boundaries (as would recently made repros). it is likely that an exact location of manufacture will remain unknown, but it appears to be from that general area. in any case it's a very nice axe and i'd be proud to have it in my collection.

one sort of interesting but obscure tidbit i came across was that if you map out the worlds population density & figure out the mathematical centroid, the point falls in the hindu kush.

Exactly the point - we must not regard modern borders as historic nor sealed. I've seen recently a lot of similar axes posted on ebay as Indian by Indian sellers, but somehow there was always a slight difference.
I'm familiar with the axes posted above by Atlantia, to my best opinion they are Indian though their shape is quite unusual for that region.

rickystl · 1st October 2011, 11:26 PM

Thank you all very much for your comments. Would anyone want to take a guess as to when this might have been made? Thanks, Rick.

24th September 2011, 06:59 PM	#1
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	Battle Axe for Comment Hello. This axe belongs to a fellow collector. Any idea of it's origin? Danish? Thanks for any comments. Rick. Attached Images

24th September 2011, 07:13 PM	#2
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Ello Rick, Looks Indian to me mate. Best Gene Last edited by Atlantia; 24th September 2011 at 09:22 PM.

26th September 2011, 07:00 PM	#6
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	There have been a lot of similar to nigh identical axes coming out of India recently. Even the shaft with the 'button' end looks Indian to me. Here's a similar piece thats definately Indian. Attached Images Last edited by Atlantia; 26th September 2011 at 07:33 PM.

27th September 2011, 03:41 PM	#7
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	Hi Gene. Thanks for the photo. I'm begining to agree with you on the Indian origin. The thin, flat blade of this axe, which was the type used for shearing chain mail, makes me think European. Attached, are the dimensions. It's actually a fairly small axe. Wish I had an idea of it's age and value? But that's difficult not knowing it's origin. Hmmmm. I just don't know enough about these items. Maybe some others will see this Post and lend their opinions. Thanks, Rick. Attached Images

30th September 2011, 11:33 PM	#13
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	It's possible, there are Afghan versions of Indian axe types. Or put another way, there are very similar axes from both and as the origin of this type isn't clear it's entirely likely that it's used across a wide area. I have to say that I've not seen this type definatively ID'd as Afghan, but I have seen examples of this type that I know came from India... Some of which are for sale from sellers IN India. And Broadaxe has seen similar ones positively ID'd as Afghan. The copper decoration isn't unusual, but the copper cover on the backstrap is unusual in my experience. It might be possible to identify the area of origin from a specific feature, but I'm not sure anyone has actually done the research on these simple forms to that extent. Look at the problems I encountered trying to ID my pair of axes! So Ricks axe.... Indian, or Afghan? Almost certainly one of those two I'd say Attached Images

25th September 2011, 02:13 PM	#3
Zwielicht Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 26	I would, probably, suggest scandinavian origins: if you shall make a tangent at the middle point of edge, it won't be parallel to a handle, which could be quite unusual for an indian axe - but a common trait for, say, Viking-age scandinavian design. But, I must admit, I've seen much lesser of indian axes than scandinavian ones.

26th September 2011, 11:37 AM	#4
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,186	some afghani axes tend to have copper inlayed bands at the eye socket/blade join area like this one. is the riveted copper back support a repair? any dimensions?

26th September 2011, 03:31 PM	#5
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	He mentions that the brass/copper on the back of the blade appears to be decoration. No sign of a break or repair. He's emailing me back with dimensions. If it wasn't for the copper/brass additions, it looks Danish or Saxon.

28th September 2011, 02:01 PM	#9
broadaxe Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 332	Afghan.

29th September 2011, 06:14 PM	#11
broadaxe Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 332	Yes, I've encountered this kind before, several times. There was a period on ebay when a vendour from the USA had dozens of them (posted as Afghan), every one was unique (being hand made) but the general line were the same, as well as the decorations with inlaid brass or copper. Best source: I remember an article from the early 80's, days of the Soviet war in Afghanistan, and there were several photos of Mujahidun warriors packing this type of axe exactly. The fore & aft langets, long blade relative to its width are all Afghan characters.

1st October 2011, 08:24 AM	#14
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,186	many moons ago when these axes were used seriously in combat, the area of northern india/pakistan/afghanistan was not so specificly assigned to those countries, pakistan did not exist, and the area was essentially known as the hindu kush/northwest frontier and comprised of a large number of small tribal states. i would assume (always dangerous) that there was enough interaction between the inhabitants of the area (i.e. war) to spread a variety of weapons about the area, local copies and versions made in more dedicated manufacturing centres also would blur the boundaries (as would recently made repros). it is likely that an exact location of manufacture will remain unknown, but it appears to be from that general area. in any case it's a very nice axe and i'd be proud to have it in my collection. one sort of interesting but obscure tidbit i came across was that if you map out the worlds population density & figure out the mathematical centroid, the point falls in the hindu kush. Last edited by kronckew; 1st October 2011 at 08:36 AM.

1st October 2011, 11:26 PM	#16
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	Thank you all very much for your comments. Would anyone want to take a guess as to when this might have been made? Thanks, Rick.