Odd Sword

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Any ideas on this weapon?... Looks like an Ethiopian style. (Readers are pointed to the fact that that the picture of 3 in a group shows the pommel and tang at photo top left. The tang has been lengthened.)

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ian]

Ibrahiim:

Could you please provide the full Latin inscription. It is hard to make out the word. Is it "MOIDUM"? That does not make sense to me. Perhaps another letter in front?

Do you think the blade is Western European in origin?

Ian.

[Iain]

I am slightly unsure what is considered 'odd' about this sword. Its a European blade of likely Solingen make.

It is not Ethiopian in anyway.

The hilt appears to be typical for Omani remounts. But I am surprised Ibrahiim hasn't pointed that out?

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Iain

I am slightly unsure what is considered 'odd' about this sword. Its a European blade of likely Solingen make.

It is not Ethiopian in anyway.

The hilt appears to be typical for Omani remounts. But I am surprised Ibrahiim hasn't pointed that out?

Salaams Iain ..Yes you are partly right since I thought I would let people have a go at this without too much prompting from me.

Its odd because the blade marks are as you say undecipherable with a peculiar W and weird looking D and another D then a 1 then a very odd looking S or 5 .... So it looks like W D D 1 5 or rather 5 1 D D M

The hilt is an extended job. It looks like an Omanified sword particularly with the pommel of a type I am not familiar with in terms of the 6 pointed star decoration.. Thus, odd, from that standpoint.

I would say this was a European export blade which has had the Omani hilt extension and therefor likely to have journeyed along the Africa(Ethiopia) to Sanaa to Muttrah route (though oddly this came in as a photo only so I cant give it the bend test) ...and having ended up in a large private collection.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Ian

Ibrahiim:

Could you please provide the full Latin inscription. It is hard to make out the word. Is it "MOIDUM"? That does not make sense to me. Perhaps another letter in front?

Do you think the blade is Western European in origin?

Ian.

Salaams Ian, Latin not my strongpoint however ...It could be a number sequence in Latin? I dont recognise the inscription at all thus my tag that it was odd...in addition to a Pommel decoration I have never seen before.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Kubur]

Salaam,
I think at something like that:
http://www.davidmus.dk/en/collection...uks/art/1-1998
Ibrahim & Iain, have a look at this link.
Is it possible to have an European blade, reused by Mamluks then by Omani?
Best,
Kubur

[Iain]

Originally Posted by Kubur

Salaam,
I think at something like that:
http://www.davidmus.dk/en/collection...uks/art/1-1998
Ibrahim & Iain, have a look at this link.
Is it possible to have an European blade, reused by Mamluks then by Omani?
Best,
Kubur

The sword you linked to is part of a specific set. That is much earlier than the blade in the sword Ibrahiim presented.

The swords in your link were donated in a number of series to the arsenal in Alexandria. I recommend back issues of the Park Lane Fair publication which feature a number of highly insightful articles on the subject by Clive Thomas and David Oliver.

The blade shown by Ibrahiim has the look more of a 16th or 17th century blade perhaps found on a walloon hilt originally. Those more versed in European blades can hopefully elaborate or correct this impression.

[Iain]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams Iain ..Yes you are partly right since I thought I would let people have a go at this without too much prompting from me.

Its odd because the blade marks are as you say undecipherable with a peculiar W and weird looking D and another D then a 1 then a very odd looking S or 5 .... So it looks like W D D 1 5 or rather 5 1 D D M

The hilt is an extended job. It looks like an Omanified sword particularly with the pommel of a type I am not familiar with in terms of the 6 pointed star decoration.. Thus, odd, from that standpoint.

I would say this was a European export blade which has had the Omani hilt extension and therefor likely to have journeyed along the Africa(Ethiopia) to Sanaa to Muttrah route (though oddly this came in as a photo only so I cant give it the bend test) ...and having ended up in a large private collection.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Right, well hopefully Jim or one of the other more European oriented members will have a go at the inscription. There are myriad versions of these, often spelled differently and making it a bit of a challenge at times. In any case the format and the anchor at the top of the inscription correspond to a number of blades I've see in the past that fall into the 16th century. So certainly a nice old blade I think.

[Norman McCormick]

Hi,
It would appear that someone has at some point attempted to imitate the interlocking triangles and proof slug found on 19thC British blades, presumably to increase the perceived value of the blade.
Regards,
Norman.

[TVV]

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

Hi,
It would appear that someone has at some point attempted to imitate the interlocking triangles and proof slug found on 19thC British blades, presumably to increase the perceived value of the blade.
Regards,
Norman.

To me it looks like the six-pointed star is on the pommel, and it is a pretty common symbol used throughout the Islamic World.

Regards,
Teodor

[Norman McCormick]

Originally Posted by TVV

To me it looks like the six-pointed star is on the pommel, and it is a pretty common symbol used throughout the Islamic World.

Regards,
Teodor

Hi Teodor,
My mistake. Used to seeing ricasso at the bottom of a photo, jumped in with both feet.
My Regards,
Norman.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

Hi Teodor,
My mistake. Used to seeing ricasso at the bottom of a photo, jumped in with both feet.
My Regards,
Norman.

Salaams Norman McCormick ~ I thought the same when I received the pictures ! It took me a while to figure it out as decoration on a pommel... I can't decide how this was achieved as it looks like a Wilkinson which has been hacked about... as I was saying it is quite an odd thing..

I have just posted a note to Early Makers Blade Marks By Jim McDougall on the subject Signs, Ornaments and inscriptions on Swords which is interesting.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Jim McDougall]

Without going through resources in usual lengthy foray, I'd say Iain is pretty much spot on suggesting a European arming sword, probably Walloon or Pappenheimer and probably 17th century.
The shouldered forte and panel with these letters correspond to similar arrangements in Spanish/Italian blades and their Solingen counterparts.

The letters are probably acrostic, and often occur representing various slogans, invocations or mottos so are typically indecipherable. This practice seems to have originated in Italy and was soon copied widely, however there are far earlier blades with such mysterious inscribed letters.

It does seem unusual for one of these blades to end up in this particular Omani context, they are more often likely to turn up in kaskara in the rather limited cases that they do appear. It would be anyone's guess as to how this blade came into what appears to be a 'Mutrah' setting, but I think Ibrahiims suggestion of entry into the 'Red Sea' network probable. The Bedouin across Yemeni regions often stockpiled numbers of blades from these sources.

The curious application of the 'Star of Solomon' on the pommel does seem decorative and might well be inspired by any number of sources, with this device often appearing on Ethiopian blades from England which came into Yemen from there. The primary interest in the blades out of Ethiopia was the rhino hilts, and the blades were either hilted in San'aa in various forms or went to trade sources eastward.

[spiral]

Fascinating one... Im interested t see the deductions!

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Without going through resources in usual lengthy foray, I'd say Iain is pretty much spot on suggesting a European arming sword, probably Walloon or Pappenheimer and probably 17th century.
The shouldered forte and panel with these letters correspond to similar arrangements in Spanish/Italian blades and their Solingen counterparts.

The letters are probably acrostic, and often occur representing various slogans, invocations or mottos so are typically indecipherable. This practice seems to have originated in Italy and was soon copied widely, however there are far earlier blades with such mysterious inscribed letters.

It does seem unusual for one of these blades to end up in this particular Omani context, they are more often likely to turn up in kaskara in the rather limited cases that they do appear. It would be anyone's guess as to how this blade came into what appears to be a 'Mutrah' setting, but I think Ibrahiims suggestion of entry into the 'Red Sea' network probable. The Bedouin across Yemeni regions often stockpiled numbers of blades from these sources.

The curious application of the 'Star of Solomon' on the pommel does seem decorative and might well be inspired by any number of sources, with this device often appearing on Ethiopian blades from England which came into Yemen from there. The primary interest in the blades out of Ethiopia was the rhino hilts, and the blades were either hilted in San'aa in various forms or went to trade sources eastward.

Salaams Jim, Thank you and Iain and everyone who have applied "constructive input" so far and for your excellent deductions and observations.

It is always a danger that in the last 5 decades since Muttrah has been heavily involved in switching hilts n' blades that some local collections may have been infected. I fear that this may be the case in this sword though it is interesting with a puzzling pommel and blade inscription.

The Red Sea is indeed a complex case as blades that enter the area can funnel down and across it from many regions..and do so even today.

I seldom get the chance to inspect the collection from which this one came ...nor do I get much chance to speak to the owner ...but he says Yemen...(NOT WITHSTANDING the bladewhich looks European) and to me that seems about right and later perhaps Oman for a tang extension and pommel.

There are even more strange blades to come out from this and other sources and I shall endeavor to flash these to Forum as and when.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi

[Gavin Nugent]

Whilst considering the outer shape of the star on the sword only, not the inter crossing lines forming the seal of Solomon, a quick Google search found this link below.
From Al Liwa, Sultanate of Oman.

http://star-of-david.blogspot.com.au...n-joradan.html

A quick flick through The Craft Heritage of Oman by Richardson and Dorr notes that the 6 sectioned floral motif is featured in Oman decoration and jewellery and other craft aspects....But again without the inter crossing lines that make the seal.

Scroll down 2/3rs of the page here for a glimpse of Oman silver work in the star pattern and the Jewish reference;

https://shereenshafi.wordpress.com/2...im-project-4b/

When considering the long established sea trade and similar cultural aspects it does not seem out of place on this sword at all.

Gavin

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by SwordsAntiqueWeapons

Whilst considering the outer shape of the star on the sword only, not the inter crossing lines forming the seal of Solomon, a quick Google search found this link below.
From Al Liwa, Sultanate of Oman.

http://star-of-david.blogspot.com.au...n-joradan.html

A quick flick through The Craft Heritage of Oman by Richardson and Dorr notes that the 6 sectioned floral motif is featured in Oman decoration and jewellery and other craft aspects....But again without the inter crossing lines that make the seal.

Scroll down 2/3rs of the page here for a glimpse of Oman silver work in the star pattern and the Jewish reference;

https://shereenshafi.wordpress.com/2...im-project-4b/

When considering the long established sea trade and similar cultural aspects it does not seem out of place on this sword at all.

Gavin

Salaams SwordsAntiqueWeapons ~ Your references are interesting and I would add that as well as the obscure window freeze at Liwa (must be one of the few remaining pieces of architecture with the 6 pointed star if infact that is what it illustrates..#see note below.) that Sohar was full of Jewish people but they were decimated by the Portuguese in the early 16th C...though remnants of an ancient Jewish temple are nearby. I know that Jewish traders and craftsmen were at Muscat and certainly in Muttrah in the mid 20th and back through the ages. Thus though I am aware of the history regarding these great traders I am not linking this sword to them (but I may be wrong).

I do, however, point you to the 6 pointed star and slug at the centre of the Wilkinson sword ...see http://mys.yoursearch.me/images?q=wi...+star+of+david In that case the 6 pointed star is at the Ricasso but here on the project sword it is on the Pommel?.. Are we looking at a Wilkinson that has been cut up....and having the pommel decorated on a different sword... and as part of the tang and pommel extension?... I suspect this is the case.

The circular Jewellery you show at the other reference is not silver nor is it Omani since the form is wrong and it is decorated in Lapiz Lazuli ..not an Omani decorative technique. I think likely to be Pakistani or Afghan.

Islamic geometry may occasionally throw up a 6 pointer and sometimes these may be traceable as links to Jewish craftsmanship...In the Yemen for example where Jewish silver and goldsmiths did work for both Islamic and Jewish clients. Of course being a simple geometrical star is not unusual in Islamic art and shapes like it will therefor appear in Richardson and Doprr...but not on Pommels....In fact it has never so far popped up on an Omani pommel and particularly with an hole in it neither in any Omani Museum or in the document you mention.

This sword is in my view not anywhere near normal...thus my description of it as "odd"... It most certainly is not a common style in Oman, however, I challenge anyone to show me a similar sword...with that sort of blade and the very peculiar pommel decoration the like of which I have never seen.

#Note.
Please note ...from http://star-of-david.blogspot.com.au...%80%99s%20seal

Quote"Star of David researchers generally indicate the Non-Jewish Star of David by the name Hexagram. Hexagram is a name invented only in recent centuries; I mean, it is not known for thousands of years how the non-Jewish Stars of David were named. "Hex" is the Greek word that represents the number six, "gram" means form. Even the Christian name for the Shield of David "the Star of David" was invented only in recent centuries. Muslims called the Star of David always the Seal of Solomon, but Seal of Solomon was used both in Judaism and in Islam also as the name of a pentagram. The Indian Star of David is commonly named Yantra".Unquote.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Thinking aloud ... I have to say that I think...on reflection... that the design work is added to the pommel as opposed to it having been grafted on from another sword ...See http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=8997 for an indicator of that and a possible link as perhaps a trade blade from Europe into Ethiopia. I will try to ascertain what its recent history was and should it have the aroma upon it having been anywhere near Muscat (which I very much suspect) I shall report that to thread. My view points to a Muttrah rehilt.

[Jim McDougall]

Thanks Gav! Nicely spotted and observed info regarding the familiar 'Star of David' device, which of course existed in form far earlier as the Star of Solomon, and was indeed often used in many aspects of Islamic art and material culture and in others as well . It truly is amazing how much material can be found these days on the internet! and I am always grateful for those who take the time to find such things and add them to discussions here.

Ibrahiim, thank you for the always valuable input and kind comments. It is always interesting to have your insight regarding Omani items and culture as you are quite literally centered there and offer perspective most of us would not otherwise have access to.

As you note, this particular sword is indeed 'unusual' or 'odd' as one might chose, and presents certain challenges in 'deducing' the probable inspirations and sources for its collective elements and features. That is why these threads are so important as a venue for collective discussion and sharing of material, we can all continue learning together.

I must admit I have never personally seen this star device on one of these distinctive Omani pommels, or for that matter, any form of decoration or device on them. As earlier mentioned, these six point stars are quite notably seen on many Ethiopian blades, it would seem quite likely derived from the English blades proof slug surround associated with Wilkinson Sword Co. ad their imported blades. These blades often entered the Arabian markets as also mentioned.
It is also seems the doubled lines constructing the intersected triangles is something seen in other cases, and seems to suggest an almost more decorative theme than symbolic.

While the 'Star' is certainly a key element in observing this particular sword, the clearly European blade, which is of a form not commonly seen in Omani context, is certainly a case for further 'deduction' and discussion.

I think the situation with commercial activity with Omani swords in Mutrah and others is of course one of the mitigating factors in evaluating these weapons. Despite the diffusion of blades and influences through normal trade and colonial activity, these circumstances always remain present.

In that perspective, rather than focusing on the compromising of actual historical status, I always chose to recognize the cultural and traditional aspects which are carried forth in the weapons ethnographically .

All best regards,
Jim

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Thanks Gav! Nicely spotted and observed info regarding the familiar 'Star of David' device, which of course existed in form far earlier as the Star of Solomon, and was indeed often used in many aspects of Islamic art and material culture and in others as well . It truly is amazing how much material can be found these days on the internet! and I am always grateful for those who take the time to find such things and add them to discussions here.

Ibrahiim, thank you for the always valuable input and kind comments. It is always interesting to have your insight regarding Omani items and culture as you are quite literally centered there and offer perspective most of us would not otherwise have access to.

As you note, this particular sword is indeed 'unusual' or 'odd' as one might chose, and presents certain challenges in 'deducing' the probable inspirations and sources for its collective elements and features. That is why these threads are so important as a venue for collective discussion and sharing of material, we can all continue learning together.

I must admit I have never personally seen this star device on one of these distinctive Omani pommels, or for that matter, any form of decoration or device on them. As earlier mentioned, these six point stars are quite notably seen on many Ethiopian blades, it would seem quite likely derived from the English blades proof slug surround associated with Wilkinson Sword Co. ad their imported blades. These blades often entered the Arabian markets as also mentioned.
It is also seems the doubled lines constructing the intersected triangles is something seen in other cases, and seems to suggest an almost more decorative theme than symbolic.

While the 'Star' is certainly a key element in observing this particular sword, the clearly European blade, which is of a form not commonly seen in Omani context, is certainly a case for further 'deduction' and discussion.

I think the situation with commercial activity with Omani swords in Mutrah and others is of course one of the mitigating factors in evaluating these weapons. Despite the diffusion of blades and influences through normal trade and colonial activity, these circumstances always remain present.

In that perspective, rather than focusing on the compromising of actual historical status, I always chose to recognize the cultural and traditional aspects which are carried forth in the weapons ethnographically .

All best regards,
Jim

Salaams Jim, Your summary so far as the project sword is concerned is accurate and excellent. I have noted how Muslims called the Star of David always the Seal of Solomon, but the Seal of Solomon was used both in Judaism and in Islam also as the name of a pentagram. The Indian Star of David is commonly named Yantra"

I have also observed certain Islamic Omani silver Jewellery devices which have both the 5 pointed star and the two triangle Hex style that many readers will (wrongly but understandably ) identify as Jewish in nature.

I note that Wilkinson stars were not originally placed with any religious concept in mind...It was simply an attractive design.

Applying a logical thought to what we see on the Project sword. We see a European blade with as yet unknown capitals (I thought these were either Cyrilic or Amharic) Either way this is not an Arabian blade form...Then there is the obviously extended tang and pommel with this extraordinary decoration not seen by me or anyone else on any Omani blade in this category...

It begins ...does it not? to wander into the area rehilted blades ...and especially because of that pommel distinctly into the area of Omani Sayf Dancing Sword form.

It is my opinion that having seen thousands of Omani Sayf Dancing Swords and because none have been decorated at the pommel like this... on an extended tang... that this is a rehilt...and came about through association with the Muttrah workshops....thus its Omani long hilt preparation; What we are looking at is a Muttrah Rehilt.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Norman McCormick]

Hi,
The design on the ricasso of British swords is of two interlocking triangles signifying strength, it has nothing to do with the Star of David, the Seal of Solomon or any other six pointed device esoteric, artistic or otherwise. Hope this clears up the misconceptions re this symbol on British blades.
Regards,
Norman.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

Hi,
The design on the ricasso of British swords is of two interlocking triangles signifying strength, it has nothing to do with the Star of David, the Seal of Solomon or any other six pointed device esoteric, artistic or otherwise. Hope this clears up the misconceptions re this symbol on British blades.
Regards,
Norman.

Well noted Norman!
We got that from Wilkinson during research when it was suggested that the 'star' surround with the proof slug may have been associated to Masonic symbolism. As with many forms of symbol, they often have many connotations and possible meaning in many contexts.

All the best,
Jim

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I place again the detail important in considering the nature of the star geometry on this added to sword at Project... The tang is extended and the pommel is added ...therefor, the star design should be seen in that context...

Quote"Star of David researchers generally indicate the Non-Jewish Star of David by the name Hexagram. Hexagram is a name invented only in recent centuries; I mean, it is not known for thousands of years how the non-Jewish Stars of David were named. "Hex" is the Greek word that represents the number six, "gram" means form. Even the Christian name for the Shield of David "the Star of David" was invented only in recent centuries.

Muslims called the Star of David always the Seal of Solomon, but Seal of Solomon was used both in Judaism and in Islam also as the name of a pentagram. The Indian Star of David is commonly named Yantra".Unquote.

Star and Hexagram appear in Islamic tradition and can be seen on Islamic Silver ..from Oman on items I have researched on ladies head dress and broches as part of an in depth appreciation of Omani Silver generally...Both the star and Hex are common in this regard. However, no hex designs are recorded or seen on Omani Swords in the ceremonial style or other Omani Swords as Pommel decoration thus this decoration appears as a one off and unrelated issue.

Below I place pictures relevant to tang and Pommel extension and an idea of the type of design on Pommels (which usually don't have any design at all) See also the form of Omani Silver showing stars and the pentagon or Hex design but in the Islamic meaning unrelated to the Jewish style..See the Hexagon decoration on what I recall was a Red Sea variant applied probably in the Yemen to the throat of the blade... For interest.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Or .... are we looking at a Portuguese blade ?... see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...tuguese+swords It occurred to me that the tang looks very old....and compare the Ricasso ... It looks Portuguese. Is it possible that this is originally a Portuguese weapon and a left over after they left Oman in 1650?

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[fernando]

Am i missing a couple points here ... or are my eyes tricking me ? :

Isn't there one more letter (figure) before the five ones that have been mentioned, close from the tang ... as also a sign that the blade has been longer ?
Isn't the particularity of the blade being riveted to the tang also an oddity ?

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

The letters appear to read...or are inscribed similar to M 5 1 D D M

The rivets are indeed odd. See another rivet application at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...t=blade+rivets post #271.

Salaams Ibrahiim al Balooshi...

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams all...

Then again if we look at Cyrillic capitals turning this line upside down M 5 1 D D M and discarding for now the two outer M looking letters ... stay with me and no cheating by standing on your head!!

The 4 letters remaining, in Cyrillic,
read W el, el, polochka, koppa. W

The two identical outer letters put as W ? I have no idea.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

... The rivets are indeed odd. See another rivet application at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...t=blade+rivets post #271...

But to my eyes the rivets in that one have the purpose to attach that rectangular adornment to the blade, whereas in the present one they seem to be the actual fixation of the tang to the blade. But i don't know

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All ~ Please note the more accurate letters represented as A 5 1 U U A


I puzzle as to the language. Is it an unrelated fact that this weapon is said to have been purchased in Yemen ...is the star shape a red herring since it seems to be part of an elongated tang...or...?

We have a series of letters that look like A 5 1 U U A Not English but Latin or Greek or.... ?

Taking each letter one by one;

A ...Perhaps Not an A but possibly since there is one at each end of the letters some sort of brackets in which the saying is placed possibly a holy incantation thus what appears to be crown shaped A at each end...I pencil in Crown A Shapes..

5 ...not a full 5...the top is missing. Is this a figure 3(Gimmel) in Hebrew ... ? Or is it the much more interesting Zayin in Hebrew...In its cursive form? Which means a number of different concepts/things including the number 7. It also stands for Jesus combined with the Holy Spirit...and interestingly enough a weapon or sword.

I ...see below. As a number its a 6

U U ..each looks like an inside out u As a number it is 9....so we have 9 9

It appears to read from the left A 7 6 9 9 A where the A are crowns? and where there is also a possibility that the fig 7 could be something entirely different !

Note. see http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Gra...yin/zayin.html

see https://www.pinterest.com/pin/167759154844035074/ for more numerical/letter clues.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Jim McDougall]

Ibrahiim, thank you so much for your tenacity in pursuing this curious inscription further!
While all of this is indeed complex, and very much could be red herring matter, it is fascinating to analyze. The complexities of the Hebrew language and the gemetria, as well as those of the Kabbala are factors often deeply involved in sword blade inscriptions of Europe and certainly may well have been involved in the Middle East and Arabia as well.

I do hope others will join in with the intriguing mystery this blade presents, as clearly this elusive inscription is almost a taunting conundrum.