Round-pommeled Moro Kris. Maguindanao?

ThePepperSkull · 28th May 2011, 06:39 AM

Hello all,

I recently recieved this kris and am wondering about a few things.

First off, the pommel shape is a little bit unusual (but I think I recall seeing one similar in Cato's Moro Swords and am wondering if this is a traditional form or is it may have been recycled from something else? it appears to be brass or bronze. maybe Copper. I am not sure which. Judging by the shape it may have once been a door knob?

the laquer on the wrap is faded/chipped offf some, but it is completely in tact which I think is fantastic.

I believe the metal collar on the handle is silver but am not so sure about the baca-baca. both have a predominantly grey patina with some deep black. Is that how silver ages/tarnishes?

Based on the elephant mouth opening I'd say it's maguindanao. Is that about right?

How old is this? I would like to think it's early 1900's but approximating the ages of kris come more easily to me when it's a Sulu piece. Mindanao pieces are more confusing to my eyes.

There are weld lines and lines of patina that would indicate a separate core. Hopefully twistcore. Have piece like these been known to demonstrate twistcore?

Either way it's a nice piece and I'm glad to have it.

I will have my own pictures up by monday with clearer images of the fittings and the pommel for you all to determine the material, as well as clearer pictures of the weld lines and patination that I believe demonstrates this as having a twistcore.

For now though, here are the pics that the seller provided.

Battara · 28th May 2011, 06:18 PM

Interesting piece. I might even say Maranao. Yes this is a type of pommel uncommon but used. And yes this is how silver oxidizes on the baka-baka. Polishing a little portion of the pommel will tell you if it is bronze or copper.

Congrats!

ThePepperSkull · 29th May 2011, 04:59 AM

Thanks, Jose! Upon closer inspection it does look maranao and not maguindanao as I once thought.

I thought it was an interesting piece and took a chance on it. Like I said, it looks to have a twistcore based on the weld lines I see. Maybe a polish/etch is in its future soon! As far as restorations go this would not take too much as far as the kris itself is concerned. A polish and etch of the blade, a polishing of the silver fittings and a new laquering of the wrap is in order I think.

Maurice · 7th June 2011, 09:16 PM

I like this kris. Interesting pommel for sure!
Looks like an old warrior to me..

DaveS · 9th June 2011, 04:29 AM

Several years ago i picked up a moro kris with a round kamagong pommel
that had been inlaid with ivory triangles and had a Spanish coin fixed to the
end of the hilt. when i showed it to Bob, he said that he had only seen one
of this type from an old picture that he had run across when he was in the
Phillipines. Since then i recall seeing one other of this kind but i can't re-
member who had it. Regardless, i think that round pommels of any kind on
a moro sword are rare.............Dave.

ariel · 9th June 2011, 09:30 PM

Sorry for political incorrectness ( no offense meant to anybody), but it looks to me like a recycled brass door handle. Any way to see the opening, ie the surface adjacent to the grip per se?

Tim Simmons · 9th June 2011, 09:56 PM

Door knobs to bicycle parts. I would call it keeping a skilled and crafty eye open to make a very nice thing when you live in the back woods so to speak.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ht=hill+tribes

nacho · 9th August 2011, 09:52 AM

This kris was shown by a member some years back.

MrLyon101 · 2nd January 2017, 04:26 AM

It has taken me many years to find a pommel that is round like the one i have. it might not be as orinate as the one above but i love the simplicity of these pommels

Battara · 2nd January 2017, 06:32 AM

What kind of material is the pommel, wood?

Robert · 2nd January 2017, 07:19 AM

After a little cleaning up and resizing of MrLyon101's photo the pommel looks to be made from wood to me.

Best,
Robert

DaveS · 4th January 2017, 03:26 AM

Nacho: I think this might be mine, that i posted a few years ago though i can't be 100 percent sure. Seems to me someone else posted one like this a while back.................Dave.

Battara · 4th January 2017, 03:50 AM

Thanks Robert, I do see now it is wood.

MrLyon101 · 2nd September 2018, 03:06 AM

Hey guys you are correct is is wooden. sorry it took a year to answer lol. We believe it to be Bunty (or bunti) wood. Not sure. that is just a guess, knowing that it is Sulu in origin the the tree types in the Philippines.

Battara · 15th September 2018, 08:58 PM

One can find bunti, narra, etc all over the southern Philippines, and if not available in a particular region (like the high mountains for example) then trade is not too far away.

28th May 2011, 06:39 AM	#1
ThePepperSkull Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 338	Round-pommeled Moro Kris. Maguindanao? Hello all, I recently recieved this kris and am wondering about a few things. First off, the pommel shape is a little bit unusual (but I think I recall seeing one similar in Cato's Moro Swords and am wondering if this is a traditional form or is it may have been recycled from something else? it appears to be brass or bronze. maybe Copper. I am not sure which. Judging by the shape it may have once been a door knob? the laquer on the wrap is faded/chipped offf some, but it is completely in tact which I think is fantastic. I believe the metal collar on the handle is silver but am not so sure about the baca-baca. both have a predominantly grey patina with some deep black. Is that how silver ages/tarnishes? Based on the elephant mouth opening I'd say it's maguindanao. Is that about right? How old is this? I would like to think it's early 1900's but approximating the ages of kris come more easily to me when it's a Sulu piece. Mindanao pieces are more confusing to my eyes. There are weld lines and lines of patina that would indicate a separate core. Hopefully twistcore. Have piece like these been known to demonstrate twistcore? Either way it's a nice piece and I'm glad to have it. I will have my own pictures up by monday with clearer images of the fittings and the pommel for you all to determine the material, as well as clearer pictures of the weld lines and patination that I believe demonstrates this as having a twistcore. For now though, here are the pics that the seller provided. Attached Images

9th August 2011, 09:52 AM	#8
nacho Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Makati Posts: 69	round pommel This kris was shown by a member some years back. Attached Images

2nd January 2017, 04:26 AM	#9
MrLyon101 Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 17	round pommel It has taken me many years to find a pommel that is round like the one i have. it might not be as orinate as the one above but i love the simplicity of these pommels Attached Images

2nd January 2017, 07:19 AM	#11
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	After a little cleaning up and resizing of MrLyon101's photo the pommel looks to be made from wood to me. Best, Robert Attached Images

2nd September 2018, 03:06 AM	#14
MrLyon101 Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 17	Wood Hey guys you are correct is is wooden. sorry it took a year to answer lol. We believe it to be Bunty (or bunti) wood. Not sure. that is just a guess, knowing that it is Sulu in origin the the tree types in the Philippines.

28th May 2011, 06:18 PM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,217	Interesting piece. I might even say Maranao. Yes this is a type of pommel uncommon but used. And yes this is how silver oxidizes on the baka-baka. Polishing a little portion of the pommel will tell you if it is bronze or copper. Congrats!

29th May 2011, 04:59 AM	#3
ThePepperSkull Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 338	Thanks, Jose! Upon closer inspection it does look maranao and not maguindanao as I once thought. I thought it was an interesting piece and took a chance on it. Like I said, it looks to have a twistcore based on the weld lines I see. Maybe a polish/etch is in its future soon! As far as restorations go this would not take too much as far as the kris itself is concerned. A polish and etch of the blade, a polishing of the silver fittings and a new laquering of the wrap is in order I think.

7th June 2011, 09:16 PM	#4
Maurice Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,330	I like this kris. Interesting pommel for sure! Looks like an old warrior to me..

9th June 2011, 04:29 AM	#5
DaveS Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	Several years ago i picked up a moro kris with a round kamagong pommel that had been inlaid with ivory triangles and had a Spanish coin fixed to the end of the hilt. when i showed it to Bob, he said that he had only seen one of this type from an old picture that he had run across when he was in the Phillipines. Since then i recall seeing one other of this kind but i can't re- member who had it. Regardless, i think that round pommels of any kind on a moro sword are rare.............Dave.

9th June 2011, 09:30 PM	#6
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Sorry for political incorrectness ( no offense meant to anybody), but it looks to me like a recycled brass door handle. Any way to see the opening, ie the surface adjacent to the grip per se?

9th June 2011, 09:56 PM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	Door knobs to bicycle parts. I would call it keeping a skilled and crafty eye open to make a very nice thing when you live in the back woods so to speak. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ht=hill+tribes

2nd January 2017, 06:32 AM	#10
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,217	What kind of material is the pommel, wood?

4th January 2017, 03:26 AM	#12
DaveS Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	Nacho: I think this might be mine, that i posted a few years ago though i can't be 100 percent sure. Seems to me someone else posted one like this a while back.................Dave.

4th January 2017, 03:50 AM	#13
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,217	Thanks Robert, I do see now it is wood.

15th September 2018, 08:58 PM	#15
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,217	One can find bunti, narra, etc all over the southern Philippines, and if not available in a particular region (like the high mountains for example) then trade is not too far away.