Pedang with European-style hilt

rumpel9 · 5th November 2018, 02:53 PM

Hi, falks.
Recently, I purchased pedang with a blade typical of the Malayan archipelago and a European-style hilt. As seen in the pictures, the blade has a clearly visible pamor. Judging by the shape of the blade and pamor type, I can assume that it was made in Java. The hilt is made in the European style, but the quality is very different from European models.
The sheath is also made very simply and is made up of two wooden halves. However, they are also given European features. I mean the metal end of the scabbard.

rumpel9 · 5th November 2018, 02:56 PM

This is the second pedang of this type in my collection. Here are the pictures of another one.

rumpel9 · 5th November 2018, 03:11 PM

A few more pedangs with the same hilt, but with slightly different blades I saw in the photos.
Given all this, it can be assumed that there was some kind of mass production. Perhaps such weapons were made for local residents in the service of the colonial administration. It is known that for the inhabitants of the Malay Archipelago, the blade with a pamor is of great sacral significance and is inherited. Therefore, it was allowed to put their personal blades, but otherwise they tried to give the weapon a European appearance.
What is your opinion about this?

A. G. Maisey · 5th November 2018, 09:31 PM

During the late colonial period in Jawa (say, from +/-1850 to 1940) many, if not most Javanese rulers equipped their palace guards and ceremonial forces with European style swords. Occasionally these swords had a European blade, more often it was a locally made blade.

The Susuhunan of Surakarta, Pakubuwana X, who ruled from 1893 to 1939 was particularly influenced by European style and many pedangs of this European influenced style originated in his Karaton.

These swords were not made as pusaka, that is, they were not regarded as items for inheritance or possessing any esoteric or spiritual content, they were Kraton (palace) property and used for ceremony only.

The photos below were taken in the Karaton Surakarta in 2015. The wall display is located in the Karaton museum --- sorry for the quality, this museum is not particularly well lit, it helps if you take a torch with you. The fancy dress soldiers are parading in the Karaton courtyard.

Ian · 6th November 2018, 03:34 AM

Hi rumpel9:

Thanks for showing this interesting sword. Last year I posted a thread about a Dutch klewang bearing the marks of the Soerakata Kraton and the ruler PB X. It can be found here. As Alan has noted, these karaton-inspired European imitations seem to have been entirely for display/parade purposes. Nonetheless, they are interesting cross-cultural pieces.

Ian.

rumpel9 · 7th November 2018, 02:25 PM

Alan and Ian, thank you for your replies and useful information.

satsujinken · 5th April 2019, 12:21 PM

So no one correctly described those swords yet ?

it is called sundrik lombok, one with modified european handle. Common in Lombok Island

these type of Sundrik with european handles are usually less ornate than the one in more traditional dress

regards
Donny

rumpel9 · 13th April 2019, 08:57 PM

Yes, you are right. This pedang is from Lombok, not Jawa. But this pedang calls CAGAK. Sundrik is absolutly diffrent.

A. G. Maisey · 20th April 2019, 12:35 PM

Congratulations Donny & Rumpel.

Both you gentleman are far more perceptive than I am, or perhaps braver, or maybe both.

In the first pedang posted by Rumpel I believe I can see a pedang with a poorly made blade --- or possibly a blade that has been damaged and reshaped --- and a scabbard that shows evidence of Madura origin. However, I will agree that it could have come from a number of other places as well, including Lombok, for me there is not nearly enough evidence for me to say that this pedang definitely originated or was used in Lombok. If its provenance is known, this might be of assistance.

The second pedang posted by Rumpel has a Javanese style blade, which might mean it was mounted in Jawa, or it might mean it was mounted in some other place. Again, insufficient evidence to be definite about a geographic point of origin.

True, this style of pedang does occur in Lombok, and if we could definitely say that it originated, or was used in Lombok, it might be reasonable to say something like:-

"this style of pedang with native made blade and European hilt is known in Lombok as a "sundrik lombok""

and of course a citation, or simply a statement of personal experience.

For myself, even though I have owned and handled a very great number of these pedangs over the years I am pretty much unable to give a defensible opinion of geographic point of origin, unless there is some emblem or recognizable stylistic feature in the dress.

Personally, I feel it is rather brave to make flat, definite statements about the origin of any SE Asian artefact in the absence of very strong evidence or logical argument.

Sajen · 20th April 2019, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rumpel9

Yes, you are right. This pedang is from Lombok, not Jawa. But this pedang calls CAGAK. Sundrik is absolutly different.

So why you ask?

Sajen · 20th April 2019, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Personally, I feel it is rather brave to make flat, definite statements about the origin of any SE Asian artefact in the absence of very strong evidence of logical argument.

Agree complete!

5th November 2018, 02:53 PM	#1
rumpel9 Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 68	Pedang with European-style hilt Hi, falks. Recently, I purchased pedang with a blade typical of the Malayan archipelago and a European-style hilt. As seen in the pictures, the blade has a clearly visible pamor. Judging by the shape of the blade and pamor type, I can assume that it was made in Java. The hilt is made in the European style, but the quality is very different from European models. The sheath is also made very simply and is made up of two wooden halves. However, they are also given European features. I mean the metal end of the scabbard. Attached Images

5th November 2018, 02:56 PM	#2
rumpel9 Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 68	This is the second pedang of this type in my collection. Here are the pictures of another one. Attached Images

5th November 2018, 09:31 PM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,893	During the late colonial period in Jawa (say, from +/-1850 to 1940) many, if not most Javanese rulers equipped their palace guards and ceremonial forces with European style swords. Occasionally these swords had a European blade, more often it was a locally made blade. The Susuhunan of Surakarta, Pakubuwana X, who ruled from 1893 to 1939 was particularly influenced by European style and many pedangs of this European influenced style originated in his Karaton. These swords were not made as pusaka, that is, they were not regarded as items for inheritance or possessing any esoteric or spiritual content, they were Kraton (palace) property and used for ceremony only. The photos below were taken in the Karaton Surakarta in 2015. The wall display is located in the Karaton museum --- sorry for the quality, this museum is not particularly well lit, it helps if you take a torch with you. The fancy dress soldiers are parading in the Karaton courtyard. Attached Images

20th April 2019, 12:35 PM	#9
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,893	Congratulations Donny & Rumpel. Both you gentleman are far more perceptive than I am, or perhaps braver, or maybe both. In the first pedang posted by Rumpel I believe I can see a pedang with a poorly made blade --- or possibly a blade that has been damaged and reshaped --- and a scabbard that shows evidence of Madura origin. However, I will agree that it could have come from a number of other places as well, including Lombok, for me there is not nearly enough evidence for me to say that this pedang definitely originated or was used in Lombok. If its provenance is known, this might be of assistance. The second pedang posted by Rumpel has a Javanese style blade, which might mean it was mounted in Jawa, or it might mean it was mounted in some other place. Again, insufficient evidence to be definite about a geographic point of origin. True, this style of pedang does occur in Lombok, and if we could definitely say that it originated, or was used in Lombok, it might be reasonable to say something like:- "this style of pedang with native made blade and European hilt is known in Lombok as a "sundrik lombok"" and of course a citation, or simply a statement of personal experience. For myself, even though I have owned and handled a very great number of these pedangs over the years I am pretty much unable to give a defensible opinion of geographic point of origin, unless there is some emblem or recognizable stylistic feature in the dress. Personally, I feel it is rather brave to make flat, definite statements about the origin of any SE Asian artefact in the absence of very strong evidence or logical argument. Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 21st April 2019 at 01:39 AM. Reason: typo correction

5th November 2018, 03:11 PM	#3
rumpel9 Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 68	A few more pedangs with the same hilt, but with slightly different blades I saw in the photos. Given all this, it can be assumed that there was some kind of mass production. Perhaps such weapons were made for local residents in the service of the colonial administration. It is known that for the inhabitants of the Malay Archipelago, the blade with a pamor is of great sacral significance and is inherited. Therefore, it was allowed to put their personal blades, but otherwise they tried to give the weapon a European appearance. What is your opinion about this?

6th November 2018, 03:34 AM	#5
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,203	Hi rumpel9: Thanks for showing this interesting sword. Last year I posted a thread about a Dutch klewang bearing the marks of the Soerakata Kraton and the ruler PB X. It can be found here. As Alan has noted, these karaton-inspired European imitations seem to have been entirely for display/parade purposes. Nonetheless, they are interesting cross-cultural pieces. Ian.

7th November 2018, 02:25 PM	#6
rumpel9 Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 68	Alan and Ian, thank you for your replies and useful information.

5th April 2019, 12:21 PM	#7
satsujinken Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Surabaya - Indonesia Posts: 199	So no one correctly described those swords yet ? it is called sundrik lombok, one with modified european handle. Common in Lombok Island these type of Sundrik with european handles are usually less ornate than the one in more traditional dress regards Donny

13th April 2019, 08:57 PM	#8
rumpel9 Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 68	Yes, you are right. This pedang is from Lombok, not Jawa. But this pedang calls CAGAK. Sundrik is absolutly diffrent.