Strange Sword with Khanda/Pattisa Blade- comments

[Sikh_soldier]

I recently saw this sword, has it been re-hilted, is the hilt appropriate, is it an indian sword?



any comments are much appreciated

[Lew]

It looks like a Celtic or migration period Germanic sword reproduction.

Lew

[Sikh_soldier]

So not a Khanda then!!

[Jim McDougall]

I agree Lew, reproduction of early iron age 'antennae' type swords or the LaTene type.
Nothing to do with Khanda. We have been talking a lot on khandas lately though Sikh Soldier. I think the threads discussing them have developed some pretty good discussion on these.

[Gavin Nugent]

I aggree, after watching a documentry on the rise and fall of the Celtic tribes I too agree with Lew and Jim, many such examples were shown last night on the ABC television here in Brisbane.

regards

Gavin

[Sikh_soldier]

Oh thank god it was described as a "South Indian broadsword Khanda with a rare ritual Vajra handle"
I was thinking of putting in an offer,

Thanks Jim I will read up on that post, i obviously do not know nearly enough

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Sikh Soldier,
Knowledge is the most important weapon for any arms collector! This is why we are here, to learn together and share our discoveries, in both that and the weapons themselves which truly help us learn and understand.

I did not immediately recognize what that hilt was, but knew that it was certainly not a khanda. I suspected it was a very early hilt form, which was confirmed promptly by Lews post, and a quick check revealed very similar 'antennae' type hilts as described.

I'm glad you checked with us as you did and hope others will as well, as so many do before purchases or bids on weapons they are not familiar with. I cannot even imagine such a description captioning this weapon!

All very best regards,
Jim

[katana]

Hi,
I recently found this picture of a painting, (which I believe is 18th C and housed in a museum in New Delhi)

Notice the Khanda shaped blade...which seems to be 'crucifix' hilted (which seems to have a small langet similar to the African Kaskara) I thought this may be 'artistic licence' but, all the other swords shown are the same as each other, but not the same as the only Khanda blade.

Perhaps there were differently hilted Khanda (However, I am not suggesting the sword that started this thread is a Khanda but this does seem relevent to the thread)


Kind Regards David

[Jim McDougall]

The early 'khandas' in India depicted in the iconography indeed were simple hilts without guards typically. The hilt with developed knuckleguard evolved primarily with the influence of European swords, and began the advent of the familiar khanda form often termed 'Hindu basket hilt'. This is certainly not to see that the knuckleguard was not known in India prior to the European influence, but that its presence was quite limited in the regions where the khanda predominated.

Very good point however, the khanda of India did indeed have a spectrum of variation not only as it evolved, but as other influences and diffusion reflected in the variations. This example 'antennae' sword as suggested does appear to be a quite modern interpretation of these ancient iron age swords, and not associated with sword forms known in India. However, I do think it is interesting that the Indian dagger known as the 'chilanum' does seem to carry this 'anthromorphic' theme in degree. I have always considered the weaponry of India reflective in that it seems to carry weapon influences from subtle to considerable in degree, of not only other cultures, but ancient forms as well.

Nicely observed David!
All best regards,
Jim

[Sikh_soldier]

Thanks again guys your knowledge and wisdom is priceless......unlike the sword which has no value!

I watched it and was curious

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...MEWA:IT&ih=020

[katana]

Hi,
It seems that there is a relationship between the Celts and India ...although the sword shown by Sikh Soldier seems quite recent and some sort of reproduction... its roots may be historical.


http://northernway.org/school/onwarticles.html


And this from another source....

"....The Celts seem to have originated from an area around the Caspian Sea,(See also a theory displayed by # 730 below). Their eruption into the west came at much the same time as a similar migration into India and Persia. It is thought that the Celts and the Hindus shared a common ancestry in a race known as the Battle-Axe People, whose mark was a perforated stone battle-axe and whose home was in southern Russia; the language spoken by the Celts came from the same source as Sanskrit, the classical language of the Hindus. Thus the Celtic language is called Indo-European and it is not too far-fetched to see correspondences between the Indian deities and those of the Celts; and likenesses between the brahmins, the priest-astrologers of India, and the druids, the priest-astronomers of Europe - in fact, much has been written about the links between the two races. It is noticeable, for instance, that Celtic gods are depicted seated in a similar meditation posture to the Hindu deities, and that giant figures are carved on the hillsides of India as well as of Europe. ...."

http://www.isle-of-skye.org.uk/celti...a/celt_c3b.htm


So a possibillity that an early Indian sword should be mounted in a Celtic styled hilt is not so crazy ...afterall


Regards David

[Jim McDougall]

David, you always bring in incredible and compelling perspective!!! It seems that no matter what is being discussed, more and more compelling factors and elements are revealed, and more pieces of the 'big puzzle' fit. For us, the weapons are the vehicles that carry the clues.
Nicely done!!!

All very best regards,
Jim