Warangan

[Jean]

Dear friends,
Just to share with you the result of the cleaning and warangan performed by a friend from Solo, sorry for the pictures quality as some of them were taken on the spot. Impressive, isn't it?
Jean

[David]

Jean, what do you find particularly impressive about this work?

[Marcokeris]

Good work!
To use warangan is one of mine preferred summer domestic job (but my wife doesn't like this )....just about an otherworldly experience

[David]

Originally Posted by Marcokeris

Good work!
To use warangan is one of mine preferred summer domestic job (but my wife doesn't like this )....just about an otherworldly experience

Sorry, i'm going to push this a little bit. What do you think is particularly good about it?
I realize that this work might look better in person and Jean has stated he photographed quickly, but to my eyes much is left to be desired in some of these. In the first grouping it does not appear that the warangan took all that well in the 3 blades to the right. The first and third from the left seem to have the best effect.
In the next 2 examples the last one seems to be pretty good, though i can't tell if the color is fading a bit towards the end of the blade or if that is a trick of the lighting.
Frankly this looks much like the kind of results i get when i stain and i don't consider my skills at this work to be particular laudable. Much like this work it is a bit hit or miss.
I don't mean to be overly critical, but if we are going to present stuff like this for comment on the site i don't see what good it does anyone to just say "great work" if we think otherwise.

[Jean]

Originally Posted by David

Sorry, i'm going to push this a little bit. What do you think is particularly good about it?
I realize that this work might look better in person and Jean has stated he photographed quickly, but to my eyes much is left to be desired in some of these. In the first grouping it does not appear that the warangan took all that well in the 3 blades to the right. The first and third from the left seem to have the best effect.
In the next 2 examples the last one seems to be pretty good, though i can't tell if the color is fading a bit towards the end of the blade or if that is a trick of the lighting.
Frankly this looks much like the kind of results i get when i stain and i don't consider my skills at this work to be particular laudable. Much like this work it is a bit hit or miss.
I don't mean to be overly critical, but if we are going to present stuff like this for comment on the site i don't see what good it does anyone to just say "great work" if we think otherwise.

Hello David,
Thanks for your question and your appreciation which is shared by another senior member by the way. I agree that this is a question of personal taste and part of it is due to the blades themselves and the pictures, I will try to reply to it one by one:
Among the set of 6 blades, only the 3 on the left had relatively intact pamor but very indistinct, the one on the right is a Minang blade without pamor and was cleaned only, and the 2 others had very indistinct and worn-out pamor, the remnant of it being clearly visible after waragan even if the pattern does not look nice but there is nothing better which could be done! I am very satisfied with the results on the 3 blades on the left.
Regarding the 2 other blades (Bugis and Sumatra), they were a bit rusty and very dull, and the pamor was very indistinct (problably never cleaned since 100 years), and I was amazed to see the pamor contrast after cleaning and warangan. On the top one with pamor Lar Gangsir, there is no pamor on the ada-ada so this is why you see a black line in the middle (nothing to do with the warangan work). On the other one, the color is not fading towards the tip but it is an uneven lighting effect only (you can easily notice it on the bue background also)
Well, in my opinion the warangan work could not be better with these blades and I willl be open and curious to know what is wrong with it. If you can do as well or even better, congrats!
Best regards
Jean

[David]

Originally Posted by Jean

Well, in my opinion the warangan work could not be better with these blades and I willl be open and curious to know what is wrong with it. If you can do as well or even better, congrats!

Oh Jean, i sincerely doubt i could do any better, but that's not my point. I am not a professional at such things and only aspire towards the practice because there's nobody living anywhere near me that i could bring my blades to for a professional job. I do the best i can and only hope that i get a little bit better at it each time.
You are, of course, absolutely correct that the success of staining will be, among many other variables, determined by the condition of the blade and ideal results are not always possible. A good strong color or blackening of the iron is not always obtainable. So you may be right, it is possible that the warangan could not be better with these particular blades. However, i have often done repeat washings on blades when i didn't like it the first time and found that it could indeed be better. So you never know until you try. It's not a matter of whether or not there is only a small amount of intact pamor.I guess for me, i am looking for a good even result with good "color". Different irons form different periods are going to yield different "colors", but the results should be even i think.

[Jean]

David,
Thanks you for your message and I fully understand what you say, especially about the different staining results depending on the blade itself.
One aspect which could be objectively criticized by some collectors about the blades which I showed after warangan is that the pamor contrast is too high and the iron color too dark, but I personally like it this way, and with time and repeated oilings the contrast is decreasing anyway.
About obtaining an even color result on the 3rd and 4th blades from the left which have little original pamor (one is from tangguh Pajajaran), I doubt that it could be achieved unless the staining is much milder and the iron would not be black in this case.
By the way this thread was not just for showing my blades but also to see and discuss staining results from others also.
Best regards
Jean

[David]

Originally Posted by Jean

By the way this thread was not just for showing my blades but also to see and discuss staining results from others also.

Oh i see Jean, trying to trap me into showing some of my blades, eh?
Seriously though, you may or may not know that i generally refain from showing my blades on the internet, but let me see if i can find a good before and after of something i stained.

[Jean]

Originally Posted by David

Oh i see Jean, trying to trap me into showing some of my blades, eh?

David,
Yeah, I am afraid that you fell right into it!
And others are welcome too!
Best regards
Jean

[Rick]

Okay !
I'm going to rat you out David .

One done for me; smooth surface .

[David]

Originally Posted by Rick

Okay !
I'm going to rat you out David .

One done for me; smooth surface .

OK, it's a fair cop...

BTW, for those who are interested, i used a brush on method here.

[Jean]

Originally Posted by Rick

Okay !
I'm going to rat you out David .

One done for me; smooth surface .

Haha, my turn to be critical! Good work but I notice some residual red rust under the stain one third up the blade? Or is it poor maintenance from Rick?
Best regards
Jean

[asomotif]

I noticed that too, but assumed it is reflection of something at the background. or maybe flash ?

Rick, can you enlighten us ?

Best regards,
Willem

[Jean]

Originally Posted by asomotif

I noticed that too, but assumed it is reflection of something at the background. or maybe flash ?

Rick, can you enlighten us ?

Best regards,
Willem

Yes, it could be, I was just teasing David!
By the way is this an original ganja iras blade or not? (the pejetan seems to extend down to the bottom of the blade). How would you classify the nice pamor?
Best regards
Jean

[David]

Originally Posted by Jean

Haha, my turn to be critical! Good work but I notice some residual red rust under the stain one third up the blade? Or is it poor maintenance from Rick?

Well Jean, as i stated further back in this thread "Frankly this looks much like the kind of results i get when i stain and i don't consider my skills at this work to be particular laudable." I know that i would never refer to my own warangan work as impressive.
However, i can assure you that there is no residual rust here. There is an bit of unevenness in the way the stain took in that area of the blade. I actually did Rick's blade twice and when the same thing happened in that area the second time i let it be with my apologies to him. I guess since he wasn't paying for the job he was happy with.
And yes, the blade is gonjo iras IMO. Nice blade, i almost didn't send it back to him.

[Rick]

Yes, David is correct .

This color change is located about where a sepuhan line would appear .
Def. not rust .
Pamor ?
Something kind of like uler lulut; but what's in a name ?

I have seen FECL also do the same browning thing to certain ferrous metals .

Before .....

[Jean]

Thank you David and Rick.
Rick, what do you mean by FECL, I assume that it is ferric chloride or FeCl3? Ferric salts have indeed an orange color.
By the way I have one blade from Lombok with a golden shade on the pamor and do not know the origin.
Best regards
Jean

[Rick]

Correct Jean .
Ferric Chloride .
I never did well in Chemistry .

[Bill M]

How about HiOAg?













That is "Hi Oh Silver!" from the Lone Ranger

[kulbuntet]

Originally Posted by Bill Marsh

How about HiOAg?
That is "Hi Oh Silver!" from the Lone Ranger

lol old chemistry joke...

Se compounds could do the job...But i stil dont have figured out witch one wil do best. There are several Oxide compounds that contain Se...Help aspriciated!!

regards

[kulbuntet]

Originally Posted by Jean

Thank you David and Rick.
Rick, what do you mean by FECL, I assume that it is ferric chloride or FeCl3? Ferric salts have indeed an orange color.
By the way I have one blade from Lombok with a golden shade on the pamor and do not know the origin.
Best regards
Jean

hmm orange.. Fecl3 thought it was bit grey/pinkisch and with O2 contact becomes brownisch/black...... And FeSO4 is green isnt it???


P.S. the orange/redisch one is K3[Fe(CN)6]Potassium ferricyanide

EDIT>>> FeCl3 Hexa Hydrate is orange coloured.....I missed that one.. my appolegies Other FeCl3 salts are grey to black

[Bill M]

Have a friend in Germany who is involved in cancer research. I think that he uses arsenic trioxide. If you know someone in that field, locally, they might have some ideas about where and how to obtain it.

I once contacted a chemical supply house that offered to mail some to me, but they had to deliver to a commercial location.

[kulbuntet]

Hi Bill,

I stil have enough here, and am able to get more when i need. So i dont have to worrie for the next couple of years.