Need help in Translation

Spunjer · 28th December 2012, 06:01 AM

hello,
i was wondering if someone can help me translate the inscription on this particular kris. it appears to be arabic script, but most probably jawi. thank you in advance

kino · 28th December 2012, 02:30 PM

At first glance, I thought the hilt's orientation was wrong.
The curve of the blade seems to go the opposite way or is it just the photo.
What a nice Kris!!!
Congrats Bro.
Sorry no translation from me.

David · 28th December 2012, 03:28 PM

Well, my goodness...just when you think you have seen all the variations...

More than the translation Ron, i am really curious what you think about this blade. Origin, time period...

Very interesting to say the least...

Spunjer · 28th December 2012, 04:24 PM

thanks kino!
David, it's an unusual one, alright. as far as age, i believe it's an older piece. what i like about it, is the blade. it's hard to assess based on the picture, but it's actually a variation of the saber kris. although the blade does not have the relatively typical shape where the lower blade edge sweeps to meet the upper edge, it just feel like a saber, meaning, when i swing it side to side, you can feel the blade sway. yes, it's that thin. also it would explain why the curve of the blade goes the opposite way.
i know we discussed about restoration vs. recreation; i think this is one of those where i can add the asang2x safely, then re-wrap the handle.
if i can get the script translated, it might help where the blade is originally from.

Battara · 28th December 2012, 04:44 PM

Oh I agree - interesting piece and the restoration on it would be that and proper .

David · 28th December 2012, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spunjer

i know we discussed about restoration vs. recreation; i think this is one of those where i can add the asang2x safely, then re-wrap the handle.
if i can get the script translated, it might help where the blade is originally from.

I absolutely agree. You can see the marks where the two a sang-asang were so clearly you would not be at risk of personal invention there.
I often wonder about re-wrapping as i have a kris that i would like to do this with. I know we have touched on it before, but can someone point me to good instructions for traditional wrapping? I also wonder, does the style of the wrap differ from tribe to tribe (and, of course, era to era) amongst the Moro?

Dom · 29th December 2012, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spunjer

hello,
i was wondering if someone can help me translate the inscription on this particular kris. it appears to be arabic script, but most probably jawi. thank you in advance

Hi Spunjer
the Arabic writing, seems to be Old Malay script, nevertheless, but under reserves
here what we have decrypted

S A N A (letters not sticked to each other) either YEAR but under reserve

12 ?? may be the date ? 18 ??

I guess that a search in "Jawi" alphabet could complete the date "Inch'Allah"

à +

Dom

Spunjer · 29th December 2012, 03:44 AM

thank you so much, Dom! so if it's a date, it could be between 1782-1885. regardless, it's a start...
David, i don't think there's a distinct way a particular tribe wrap the handle. i think it depends more on what type of kris it is. one thing i notice though, on some parts of sulu, the handle warap is weaved, whether it's jute or silver wire.

Spunjer · 3rd July 2015, 04:31 AM

reviving an old thread...
talked to a fellow forumite regarding the translation of the Jawi on this particular kris.
been bugging me for awhile, but after talking to Oliver here's what he have to say:
on one side it says "SANA" (year)
and on the other, it says 1234 (hijiri) which translates to either 1818 or 1819. i don't know of any reason why this particular date was inscribed other than perhaps when it was made?

Oliver Pinchot · 3rd July 2015, 06:41 PM

Ron, the presence of the word sana (year) clearly indicates that this is a date, however I reiterate for the forum that the third digit from the left isn't well-executed and for that reason may or may not be a 3. As for dating, given the unusual (and striking) work on the gangya and the grip, it may well date to the beginning of the 18th century. But such a date can also be referential; were there any events which took place in that year that would be commemorated by Muslim groups of Mindanao... if, as we discussed, it is in fact from one of those cultures?

kino · 3rd July 2015, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spunjer

i know we discussed about restoration vs. recreation; i think this is one of those where i can add the asang2x safely, then re-wrap the handle.

Any progress on the restoration?

Spunjer · 4th July 2015, 01:54 PM

Oliver, thank you once again from for your help! as far as a significant event:
the Moros of Mindanao were not really into commemorating a particular event or occurrence, and if they did, it did not carry over when they got assimilated with the rest of the archipelago.
good point as well, in regards to this particular piece being from a different culture (i.e., Malay).
i can't think of any other reason on why the date would be there. perhaps someone can chime in?

kino,
the only progress i've so far is having a couple asang-asang added to it by Jose. can't find the time to wrap the handle up. maybe this fall?
here are some pics...

28th December 2012, 06:01 AM	#1
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	Need help in Translation hello, i was wondering if someone can help me translate the inscription on this particular kris. it appears to be arabic script, but most probably jawi. thank you in advance Attached Images

4th July 2015, 01:54 PM	#12
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	Oliver, thank you once again from for your help! as far as a significant event: the Moros of Mindanao were not really into commemorating a particular event or occurrence, and if they did, it did not carry over when they got assimilated with the rest of the archipelago. good point as well, in regards to this particular piece being from a different culture (i.e., Malay). i can't think of any other reason on why the date would be there. perhaps someone can chime in? kino, the only progress i've so far is having a couple asang-asang added to it by Jose. can't find the time to wrap the handle up. maybe this fall? here are some pics... Attached Images

28th December 2012, 02:30 PM	#2
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,002	At first glance, I thought the hilt's orientation was wrong. The curve of the blade seems to go the opposite way or is it just the photo. What a nice Kris!!! Congrats Bro. Sorry no translation from me.

28th December 2012, 03:28 PM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,123	Well, my goodness...just when you think you have seen all the variations... More than the translation Ron, i am really curious what you think about this blade. Origin, time period... Very interesting to say the least...

28th December 2012, 04:24 PM	#4
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	thanks kino! David, it's an unusual one, alright. as far as age, i believe it's an older piece. what i like about it, is the blade. it's hard to assess based on the picture, but it's actually a variation of the saber kris. although the blade does not have the relatively typical shape where the lower blade edge sweeps to meet the upper edge, it just feel like a saber, meaning, when i swing it side to side, you can feel the blade sway. yes, it's that thin. also it would explain why the curve of the blade goes the opposite way. i know we discussed about restoration vs. recreation; i think this is one of those where i can add the asang2x safely, then re-wrap the handle. if i can get the script translated, it might help where the blade is originally from.

28th December 2012, 04:44 PM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,220	Oh I agree - interesting piece and the restoration on it would be that and proper .

29th December 2012, 03:44 AM	#8
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	thank you so much, Dom! so if it's a date, it could be between 1782-1885. regardless, it's a start... David, i don't think there's a distinct way a particular tribe wrap the handle. i think it depends more on what type of kris it is. one thing i notice though, on some parts of sulu, the handle warap is weaved, whether it's jute or silver wire.

3rd July 2015, 04:31 AM	#9
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	reviving an old thread... talked to a fellow forumite regarding the translation of the Jawi on this particular kris. been bugging me for awhile, but after talking to Oliver here's what he have to say: on one side it says "SANA" (year) and on the other, it says 1234 (hijiri) which translates to either 1818 or 1819. i don't know of any reason why this particular date was inscribed other than perhaps when it was made?

3rd July 2015, 06:41 PM	#10
Oliver Pinchot Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 457	Ron, the presence of the word sana (year) clearly indicates that this is a date, however I reiterate for the forum that the third digit from the left isn't well-executed and for that reason may or may not be a 3. As for dating, given the unusual (and striking) work on the gangya and the grip, it may well date to the beginning of the 18th century. But such a date can also be referential; were there any events which took place in that year that would be commemorated by Muslim groups of Mindanao... if, as we discussed, it is in fact from one of those cultures?