Kindjal: need help with dating

ariel · 15th April 2007, 06:04 PM

Smallish and fully original kindjal with old blade: obvious narrowing of the blade due to repeat sharpening.
The inscription is confusing (to me) and I need help.
The first two numbers are 11: the horizontal line on top is just a scratch and reading the date as 16.. would not make sense. After that is 4, squiggles, and some more numbers(?).
Anybody to the rescue?

Zifir · 20th April 2007, 08:27 AM

I could not make sense out of it either.

just an idea, is it possible that what we are looking is not arabic script but something else?

eftihis · 22nd April 2007, 12:53 PM

Looks like Armenian script to me!

ALEX · 22nd April 2007, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zifir

...is it possible that what we are looking is not arabic script but something else?

The complete writing is neither Arabic nor Persian. However, the middle section looks like word/name "ALI" (in Arabic). Anyone sees it?

ariel · 26th April 2007, 05:05 PM

Well, the plot thickens....
I took it to the local Islamic Center and it was examined by their headmaster, who is a teacher of Arabic/Quran/calligraphy.
According to him, the script is quite crude and unsophisticated ( nothing beats Persian fake signatures of Assadullah

), and the inscription is "broken" in the middle:
It is "1" on the left, crudely embellished "Ali" in the middle (GOOD JOB ALEX!!!) and "12" on the right.
According to him, one numeral at the beginning is missing as was often the case in Arabic writings; the full date must be read as either 1112 or 1012.
It sounds too good to be true: either 1603 or 1700 would make it the oldest dated Caucasian Kindjal blade known to man and beast!!!
I shall look for more Middle Eastern linguists ; now I am REALLY!!! intrigued

15th April 2007, 06:04 PM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Kindjal: need help with dating Smallish and fully original kindjal with old blade: obvious narrowing of the blade due to repeat sharpening. The inscription is confusing (to me) and I need help. The first two numbers are 11: the horizontal line on top is just a scratch and reading the date as 16.. would not make sense. After that is 4, squiggles, and some more numbers(?). Anybody to the rescue? Attached Images

20th April 2007, 08:27 AM	#2
Zifir Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Istanbul Posts: 228	I could not make sense out of it either. just an idea, is it possible that what we are looking is not arabic script but something else?

22nd April 2007, 12:53 PM	#3
eftihis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chania Crete Greece Posts: 507	Looks like Armenian script to me!

26th April 2007, 05:05 PM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Well, the plot thickens.... I took it to the local Islamic Center and it was examined by their headmaster, who is a teacher of Arabic/Quran/calligraphy. According to him, the script is quite crude and unsophisticated ( nothing beats Persian fake signatures of Assadullah ), and the inscription is "broken" in the middle: It is "1" on the left, crudely embellished "Ali" in the middle (GOOD JOB ALEX!!!) and "12" on the right. According to him, one numeral at the beginning is missing as was often the case in Arabic writings; the full date must be read as either 1112 or 1012. It sounds too good to be true: either 1603 or 1700 would make it the oldest dated Caucasian Kindjal blade known to man and beast!!! I shall look for more Middle Eastern linguists ; now I am REALLY!!! intrigued