unusual philippino sword

carlos · 6th April 2013, 09:06 AM

This is my last adquisition, i think is a unusual sword from Philippines, I hve seen another swords with similar blades but not with this hilt, made of brass. 23 in total length.
I wish enjoy pictures.
Any comments are welcome!
Thanks
carlos

Battara · 6th April 2013, 11:00 PM

Almost looks like a Visayan blade with a Moro hilt (copper triangles?). Not being too far away, this cross pollenization probably happens more than we realize (like my Visayan/Moro dagger: www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=16964 ).

Very nice and unusual piece. Lucky you and congratulations. If you ever want to throw it away let me know (I'll go back behind your trash containers now

).

CharlesS · 7th April 2013, 01:08 AM

Wow, just proves you've never seen it all! What a lovely, interesting and unique Filipino piece. Congrats!

kino · 7th April 2013, 06:56 AM

Carlos, that is really nice. Is the handle octagonal?

carlos · 7th April 2013, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kino

Carlos, that is really nice. Is the handle octagonal?

yes, but the front and the back are a little more narrow..
thanks

Flavio · 7th April 2013, 02:08 PM

Really a wonderful piece, Carlos! Congrats!!

Spunjer · 7th April 2013, 03:45 PM

cool sundang! possible Bagobo in origin, carlos. i'm attaching a bagobo with with a similar style pommel.

Robert · 8th April 2013, 03:34 AM

Hello Carlos, I've just spent the last couple of days looking through my files trying to locate a photo I have hiding somewhere of the only other example that I have seen (so far anyway) of a sword like the one that you have posted. It has a blade of the same style of your example and also a brass hilt but the hilt is decorated in the manor of Spunjer's example and if memory serves, I believe that it was also attributed to being Bagabo in origin. All I can add to what has already been said about yours is congratulations and add the fact that I am VERY jealous of your good fortune of being able to add this to your collection.
If I can locate the lost photo I will post it here for later reference. I am sure that you will not part with this but just in case, I will be waiting with Jose back behind your trash containers.

Best,
Robert

Battara · 8th April 2013, 04:28 AM

Robert I'll save a place for you behind the trash cans at Carlos' house.....

Anyway, my only question is that usually the Bagobo brass/bronze hilts I have seen have the cast look with classic Bagobo swirls and motifs on them.

However, Carlos' piece does not - could this be some other influence? Also the blade sure looks Visayan to me - what do you think?

Robert · 8th April 2013, 05:17 AM

Hello Jose, I agree on the hilt looking rather non-traditional for Bagobo because of (as you pointed out) the lack of motifs and the smooth finish, maybe someone looking for something different? As for the blade, it looks to be of a V grind and not the traditional chisel grind found on most Visayan blades. Maybe some Bicol influence? A very interesting piece, I just wish I could locate that lost photo I have somewhere but it might only just add to the confusion.

I have added a photo of the two hilts together for better comparison. I just remembered seeing a couple of Moro swords with this cutlass style blade. Time for me to start looking through the older posts.

Best,
Robert

Battara · 8th April 2013, 11:49 PM

V grind, eh? Yup not Visayan then......

Robert · 9th April 2013, 08:43 AM

Hello Jose, Here are a couple of links to Moro kris with basically the same blade style as Carlos's example but of course these have the traditional gangya where his sword has a more or less plain flat style of guard. I still cannot find the photo of the other sword that I referred to earlier though.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=cutlass

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ight=rare+moro

Best,
Robert

Battara · 9th April 2013, 05:39 PM

Thanks Robert.

Yes I remember these kris. However they have gangas where as this piece in question does not have a ganga and thus I don't consider it a kris blade so far.

Robert · 9th April 2013, 06:52 PM

Hello Jose, here is another sword with a non-typical kris style blade. This one is from the town of Taal in Batangas. What I am getting at is that I believe that both this sword and the one that Carlos has are based on traditional (if be it rarer forms of) kris swords. The one pictured below is easy to identify where it is from seeing as it is inlaid into the hilt but the origin of the one Carlos has is a bit more of a problem.

Best,
Robert

Battara · 9th April 2013, 11:59 PM

Oh I understand better your argument now.

Bangkaya · 17th April 2013, 10:07 AM

Interesting sword...too bad there isn't a scabbard to help identify its origin.

To me it looks like a terciada blade mounted in a Tagakaolo (or possibly B'laan) kakatua hilt.

Regards,

Bangkaya

6th April 2013, 09:06 AM	#1
carlos Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 737	unusual philippino sword This is my last adquisition, i think is a unusual sword from Philippines, I hve seen another swords with similar blades but not with this hilt, made of brass. 23 in total length. I wish enjoy pictures. Any comments are welcome! Thanks carlos Attached Images

7th April 2013, 03:45 PM	#7
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	cool sundang! possible Bagobo in origin, carlos. i'm attaching a bagobo with with a similar style pommel. Attached Images

8th April 2013, 05:17 AM	#10
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hello Jose, I agree on the hilt looking rather non-traditional for Bagobo because of (as you pointed out) the lack of motifs and the smooth finish, maybe someone looking for something different? As for the blade, it looks to be of a V grind and not the traditional chisel grind found on most Visayan blades. Maybe some Bicol influence? A very interesting piece, I just wish I could locate that lost photo I have somewhere but it might only just add to the confusion. I have added a photo of the two hilts together for better comparison. I just remembered seeing a couple of Moro swords with this cutlass style blade. Time for me to start looking through the older posts. Best, Robert Attached Images Last edited by Robert; 8th April 2013 at 05:56 AM.

9th April 2013, 06:52 PM	#14
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hello Jose, here is another sword with a non-typical kris style blade. This one is from the town of Taal in Batangas. What I am getting at is that I believe that both this sword and the one that Carlos has are based on traditional (if be it rarer forms of) kris swords. The one pictured below is easy to identify where it is from seeing as it is inlaid into the hilt but the origin of the one Carlos has is a bit more of a problem. Best, Robert Attached Images

6th April 2013, 11:00 PM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Almost looks like a Visayan blade with a Moro hilt (copper triangles?). Not being too far away, this cross pollenization probably happens more than we realize (like my Visayan/Moro dagger: www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=16964 ). Very nice and unusual piece. Lucky you and congratulations. If you ever want to throw it away let me know (I'll go back behind your trash containers now ).

7th April 2013, 01:08 AM	#3
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	Wow, just proves you've never seen it all! What a lovely, interesting and unique Filipino piece. Congrats!

7th April 2013, 06:56 AM	#4
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,002	Carlos, that is really nice. Is the handle octagonal?

7th April 2013, 02:08 PM	#6
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Really a wonderful piece, Carlos! Congrats!!

8th April 2013, 03:34 AM	#8
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hello Carlos, I've just spent the last couple of days looking through my files trying to locate a photo I have hiding somewhere of the only other example that I have seen (so far anyway) of a sword like the one that you have posted. It has a blade of the same style of your example and also a brass hilt but the hilt is decorated in the manor of Spunjer's example and if memory serves, I believe that it was also attributed to being Bagabo in origin. All I can add to what has already been said about yours is congratulations and add the fact that I am VERY jealous of your good fortune of being able to add this to your collection. If I can locate the lost photo I will post it here for later reference. I am sure that you will not part with this but just in case, I will be waiting with Jose back behind your trash containers. Best, Robert

8th April 2013, 04:28 AM	#9
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Robert I'll save a place for you behind the trash cans at Carlos' house..... Anyway, my only question is that usually the Bagobo brass/bronze hilts I have seen have the cast look with classic Bagobo swirls and motifs on them. However, Carlos' piece does not - could this be some other influence? Also the blade sure looks Visayan to me - what do you think?

8th April 2013, 11:49 PM	#11
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	V grind, eh? Yup not Visayan then......

9th April 2013, 08:43 AM	#12
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hello Jose, Here are a couple of links to Moro kris with basically the same blade style as Carlos's example but of course these have the traditional gangya where his sword has a more or less plain flat style of guard. I still cannot find the photo of the other sword that I referred to earlier though. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=cutlass http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ight=rare+moro Best, Robert

9th April 2013, 05:39 PM	#13
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Thanks Robert. Yes I remember these kris. However they have gangas where as this piece in question does not have a ganga and thus I don't consider it a kris blade so far.

9th April 2013, 11:59 PM	#15
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Oh I understand better your argument now.

17th April 2013, 10:07 AM	#16
Bangkaya Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 38	Interesting sword...too bad there isn't a scabbard to help identify its origin. To me it looks like a terciada blade mounted in a Tagakaolo (or possibly B'laan) kakatua hilt. Regards, Bangkaya