New Katars

CollectingNewbie · 10th March 2007, 02:41 AM

Hey everyone, I know most of you know Ive been selling off my collection to add katars to my katar collection. Well heres the results so far. I got two katars on a trade that after cleaning are turning out very very nice. I also recently picked up a katar sword? It is 29 1/4 inches long with a 21 inch blade. Take a look and tell me what you think, also i recently had a post about a possible museum katar, this very nice peice I picked up had alot of tarnish on it and for the longest time I didnt clean it, but just recently I cleaned the whole thing to find silver all over the handle

I was very very pleased as I picked this peice up for 49.00, I will post pictures of it cleaned as well as the two I got in trade as soon as I finish removing most of the rust.

CollectingNewbie · 10th March 2007, 02:43 AM

.

CollectingNewbie · 10th March 2007, 02:45 AM

..

Jens Nordlunde · 10th March 2007, 02:16 PM

You really have gotten yourself a lot of katars. I find the katar shown on picture seven and eight especially interesting, as it can be pinned at a spacial place, Bundi in Rajasthan. When the Prince of Wales visited India in 1875-76 he was presented with a lot of weapons and other things, given by the Princes and Nobles of India. Later it all was exhibited at Marlborough House and a catalogue was made. In Case E, amongst other things, a katar is shown, and this katar was given to the Prince by H.H. The Maharaja of Bundi. If you look at the flowers between the cross bars you will see that the flowers on your katar and the ones on the picture are alike – and this indicates that it is a Bundi katar.

Battara · 10th March 2007, 06:13 PM

Nice. I recognize at least 2 of those katars as coming from our good friend Rsword. I saw them in person. Nice pieces. My favorite being the one with the wootz and chiseled elephant with gold koftgari or inlay (I forgot which). Congrats!

Thanks Jen for the id. Very helpful.

CollectingNewbie · 20th March 2007, 06:43 AM

Hi Jens thanks for the info, I find it very intereasting, As I was cleaning my blades this last week I fell absolutely in love with this style of "bundi" katar, do you happen to know any thing else about this type of katar?

Also here is some pictures of the blades I have cleaned, starting out with a soap and water rense, followed by a light sanding with 600 bit wet dry sand paper, then a light soak in a chemical rust remover, which added to the darkness of the blades so I had to go back to another light sanding, but as you can tell the process worked wonders, especially on the rust on the bundi katar, theres still some slight deeper rust spots on a few of these katars, Ive been looking through the archives but cant seem to find a good meathod of getting rid of these last bits of deeper rust, any suggestions?

Battara · 21st March 2007, 01:34 AM

Nice job on these nice puppies.

CollectingNewbie · 21st March 2007, 07:24 AM

Thanks

quite alot of time went in to scrubbing these beauties clean, I did as much as I could to restore them without losing all signs of age.

Jens Nordlunde · 21st March 2007, 05:20 PM

Nice job you have done cleaning the katars, as when cleaning there is always the question – how far do I go? I think you did well. I can’t help you any further on the Bundi katar, other than tell you to have a look at Stone page 347 #30. It is now in the MET of course, and can be seen there if it is exhibited.

Katars have always been one of my favourites, and I am glad to see you have taken collecting them up – good luck.

CollectingNewbie · 23rd March 2007, 06:53 AM

hello all, I just found a gem, its gonna need some work but i think its going to be well worth the 125.00 I just paid for it.

Bill M · 23rd March 2007, 09:23 AM

Maybe you need to change your name to "Katar-Man"

You have some nice pieces. Congrats

Jens Nordlunde · 23rd March 2007, 10:11 AM

Congratulation with your new katar. What made you start collection katar all of a sudden?

This katar is called a Garsoe katar and is said to come from Sind/Kutch/Gujarat. Among other places you can find it here.

Tirri p. 248; Egerton Pl. XIV, p. 138 # 727; Figiel’s auction catalogue, Botterfield & Butterfield, P. 87 # 2122; Pant, Indian Arms and Armour vol. II, p. 157 #415 and 416 and Stone p. 245 fig. 434 #11.

See also the other katar shown in post #4.

CollectingNewbie · 24th March 2007, 06:59 AM

Im not too sure what sparked the bug in me Jens, but I have had quite a few katars in my collection, and I just am captivated with the many different types, sizes, shapes, and art work put into each individual peice. Theres just so many variations that turn these peices of steel into works of art. Thanks once again for the info, I am going to start picking up more litature on the subject of katars as I am now focusing on them. And here are the rest of my katars, all cleaned minus 4 that I have not had time to clean.

RSWORD · 24th March 2007, 03:03 PM

Now that you have cleaned up the blades I would suggest reading up on the various posts about etching because certainly some of your blades are wootz and would come out nicely with an etch.

CollectingNewbie · 31st May 2007, 07:23 AM

Well Ive finally had time between school and work to clean up my three newest blades and get a family shot in of them all. Remember it took quite a while to get these guys cleaned up so please try not to drool too much

and in case your wondering the ruler in the picture is only 12 inches long.

ariel · 31st May 2007, 03:00 PM

Katar is usually viewed as a purely stabbing weapon, very often with a reinforced point for mail-piercing.
However, we see many katars with blades made out of European swords and some shown here, including the longest one, are just an example.
The inherently thin European blades were shortened and re-configured to the degree that the fullers were running off the point. They certainly were not reinforced to penetrate mail and were likely quite bendable even with modest pressure. Their edges, however, were carefully sharpened.
Thus, they were the antithesis of what the classic description of Katars proclaimed: not stabbers but slashers.

beoram · 1st June 2007, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Katar is usually viewed as a purely stabbing weapon, very often with a reinforced point for mail-piercing.
However, we see many katars with blades made out of European swords and some shown here, including the longest one, are just an example.
The inherently thin European blades were shortened and re-configured to the degree that the fullers were running off the point. They certainly were not reinforced to penetrate mail and were likely quite bendable even with modest pressure. Their edges, however, were carefully sharpened.
Thus, they were the antithesis of what the classic description of Katars proclaimed: not stabbers but slashers.

Interesting. So are katars very well adapted to slashing? Do the earliest katars appear to be designed for stabbing or slashing?

Andrew · 1st June 2007, 02:04 PM

I would say some katars are well suited for slashing. Just like some katars are well suited for punching through armour.

Battara · 1st June 2007, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew

I would say some katars are well suited for slashing. Just like some katars are well suited for punching through armour.

Sure does add a new meaning to the "punch line"

(sorry....guess I'm getting "punchy"

)

CollectingNewbie · 12th October 2007, 05:49 AM

Hello all,

It has been a while since I have updated you on my collection and I always like to share my collection as well as view others collections, so I will update all the new items I have gotten in this last month, its been a busy month.

the pictures with alot of knives and such not all items are mine, only the ones I will list, I just have not had time to take other pictures

the kukuri swords 35" inches
the Khyber sword
the elephant goad axe

CollectingNewbie · 12th October 2007, 06:02 AM

1

CollectingNewbie · 12th October 2007, 06:05 AM

0

CollectingNewbie · 12th October 2007, 06:08 AM

0

Tomb22 · 12th October 2007, 07:03 AM

Very nice. You have been busy. You title yourself as "Collecting Newbie."
It looks like you have moved up a couple of notches. I have just started looking at these things because of my inherited Kattar. But, I have really started to gain an appreciation for them as I have been looking and trying to learn. It is really interesting to see the variety. I liked the way you cleaned them up. I have thought about trying to do something like that with mine but have been afraid I would do something wrong and damage it. You have motivated me to start learning more about the cleaning process. Thanks for sharing.

Regards
Tom

Jens Nordlunde · 13th October 2007, 04:58 PM

Hi CollectingNewbie, in post #10 you showed a Garsoe katar from Sind. Whet happened to it, did it evaporate during cleaning? Please show us some picture of the clean one

.

CollectingNewbie · 14th October 2007, 04:44 AM

Tom, I too like you was very hesitant to even touch them with any type of anything at first, but there are some very helpful tips on cleaning blades posted here on the site and as they will all tell you it really really is important to start with the simple things, water and soap and the such before you move to sandpaper and chemicals, ive used everything from water to acids to a dremel to get out tougher spots of rust and I always coat my items with a clear enamal lacker (easily removed with an hour or so soak in meneral oil) to help protect the new finished surfaces from rust and crud that builds up from handling, but you still have to wipe off the once and a while. Good luck with your projects

Jens, sadily when that katar arrived it was in horrible horrible condition, and when I took it out of the shiping packedge one of the side bars broke off it had been so rusted, I cleaned her up as best I could and ended up donating her to a local musiem in my hometown, she was once a beautiful peice though.

10th March 2007, 02:43 AM	#2
CollectingNewbie Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 160	. . Attached Images

20th March 2007, 06:43 AM	#6
CollectingNewbie Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 160	. Hi Jens thanks for the info, I find it very intereasting, As I was cleaning my blades this last week I fell absolutely in love with this style of "bundi" katar, do you happen to know any thing else about this type of katar? Also here is some pictures of the blades I have cleaned, starting out with a soap and water rense, followed by a light sanding with 600 bit wet dry sand paper, then a light soak in a chemical rust remover, which added to the darkness of the blades so I had to go back to another light sanding, but as you can tell the process worked wonders, especially on the rust on the bundi katar, theres still some slight deeper rust spots on a few of these katars, Ive been looking through the archives but cant seem to find a good meathod of getting rid of these last bits of deeper rust, any suggestions? Attached Images

23rd March 2007, 10:11 AM	#12
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Congratulation with your new katar. What made you start collection katar all of a sudden? This katar is called a Garsoe katar and is said to come from Sind/Kutch/Gujarat. Among other places you can find it here. Tirri p. 248; Egerton Pl. XIV, p. 138 # 727; Figiel’s auction catalogue, Botterfield & Butterfield, P. 87 # 2122; Pant, Indian Arms and Armour vol. II, p. 157 #415 and 416 and Stone p. 245 fig. 434 #11. See also the other katar shown in post #4. Last edited by Jens Nordlunde; 23rd March 2007 at 03:39 PM.

24th March 2007, 06:59 AM	#13
CollectingNewbie Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 160	Im not too sure what sparked the bug in me Jens, but I have had quite a few katars in my collection, and I just am captivated with the many different types, sizes, shapes, and art work put into each individual peice. Theres just so many variations that turn these peices of steel into works of art. Thanks once again for the info, I am going to start picking up more litature on the subject of katars as I am now focusing on them. And here are the rest of my katars, all cleaned minus 4 that I have not had time to clean. Attached Images

31st May 2007, 07:23 AM	#15
CollectingNewbie Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 160	. Well Ive finally had time between school and work to clean up my three newest blades and get a family shot in of them all. Remember it took quite a while to get these guys cleaned up so please try not to drool too much and in case your wondering the ruler in the picture is only 12 inches long. Attached Images

10th March 2007, 02:41 AM	#1
CollectingNewbie Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 160	New Katars Hey everyone, I know most of you know Ive been selling off my collection to add katars to my katar collection. Well heres the results so far. I got two katars on a trade that after cleaning are turning out very very nice. I also recently picked up a katar sword? It is 29 1/4 inches long with a 21 inch blade. Take a look and tell me what you think, also i recently had a post about a possible museum katar, this very nice peice I picked up had alot of tarnish on it and for the longest time I didnt clean it, but just recently I cleaned the whole thing to find silver all over the handle I was very very pleased as I picked this peice up for 49.00, I will post pictures of it cleaned as well as the two I got in trade as soon as I finish removing most of the rust. Attached Images

10th March 2007, 02:45 AM	#3
CollectingNewbie Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 160	.. .. Attached Images

10th March 2007, 02:16 PM	#4
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	You really have gotten yourself a lot of katars. I find the katar shown on picture seven and eight especially interesting, as it can be pinned at a spacial place, Bundi in Rajasthan. When the Prince of Wales visited India in 1875-76 he was presented with a lot of weapons and other things, given by the Princes and Nobles of India. Later it all was exhibited at Marlborough House and a catalogue was made. In Case E, amongst other things, a katar is shown, and this katar was given to the Prince by H.H. The Maharaja of Bundi. If you look at the flowers between the cross bars you will see that the flowers on your katar and the ones on the picture are alike – and this indicates that it is a Bundi katar. Attached Images

10th March 2007, 06:13 PM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,217	Nice. I recognize at least 2 of those katars as coming from our good friend Rsword. I saw them in person. Nice pieces. My favorite being the one with the wootz and chiseled elephant with gold koftgari or inlay (I forgot which). Congrats! Thanks Jen for the id. Very helpful.

21st March 2007, 01:34 AM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,217	Nice job on these nice puppies.

21st March 2007, 07:24 AM	#8
CollectingNewbie Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 160	Thanks quite alot of time went in to scrubbing these beauties clean, I did as much as I could to restore them without losing all signs of age.

21st March 2007, 05:20 PM	#9
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Nice job you have done cleaning the katars, as when cleaning there is always the question – how far do I go? I think you did well. I can’t help you any further on the Bundi katar, other than tell you to have a look at Stone page 347 #30. It is now in the MET of course, and can be seen there if it is exhibited. Katars have always been one of my favourites, and I am glad to see you have taken collecting them up – good luck.

23rd March 2007, 06:53 AM	#10
CollectingNewbie Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 160	hello all, I just found a gem, its gonna need some work but i think its going to be well worth the 125.00 I just paid for it. Attached Images

23rd March 2007, 09:23 AM	#11
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	Maybe you need to change your name to "Katar-Man" You have some nice pieces. Congrats

24th March 2007, 03:03 PM	#14
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,083	Now that you have cleaned up the blades I would suggest reading up on the various posts about etching because certainly some of your blades are wootz and would come out nicely with an etch.

31st May 2007, 03:00 PM	#16
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Katar is usually viewed as a purely stabbing weapon, very often with a reinforced point for mail-piercing. However, we see many katars with blades made out of European swords and some shown here, including the longest one, are just an example. The inherently thin European blades were shortened and re-configured to the degree that the fullers were running off the point. They certainly were not reinforced to penetrate mail and were likely quite bendable even with modest pressure. Their edges, however, were carefully sharpened. Thus, they were the antithesis of what the classic description of Katars proclaimed: not stabbers but slashers.

1st June 2007, 02:04 PM	#18
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	I would say some katars are well suited for slashing. Just like some katars are well suited for punching through armour.

12th October 2007, 05:49 AM	#20
CollectingNewbie Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 160	some new additions Hello all, It has been a while since I have updated you on my collection and I always like to share my collection as well as view others collections, so I will update all the new items I have gotten in this last month, its been a busy month. the pictures with alot of knives and such not all items are mine, only the ones I will list, I just have not had time to take other pictures the kukuri swords 35" inches the Khyber sword the elephant goad axe Attached Images

12th October 2007, 06:02 AM	#21
CollectingNewbie Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 160	2 1 Attached Images

12th October 2007, 06:05 AM	#22
CollectingNewbie Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 160	3 0 Attached Images

12th October 2007, 06:08 AM	#23
CollectingNewbie Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 160	4 0 Attached Images

12th October 2007, 07:03 AM	#24
Tomb22 Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 17	Wow Very nice. You have been busy. You title yourself as "Collecting Newbie." It looks like you have moved up a couple of notches. I have just started looking at these things because of my inherited Kattar. But, I have really started to gain an appreciation for them as I have been looking and trying to learn. It is really interesting to see the variety. I liked the way you cleaned them up. I have thought about trying to do something like that with mine but have been afraid I would do something wrong and damage it. You have motivated me to start learning more about the cleaning process. Thanks for sharing. Regards Tom

13th October 2007, 04:58 PM	#25
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi CollectingNewbie, in post #10 you showed a Garsoe katar from Sind. Whet happened to it, did it evaporate during cleaning? Please show us some picture of the clean one.

14th October 2007, 04:44 AM	#26
CollectingNewbie Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 160	. Tom, I too like you was very hesitant to even touch them with any type of anything at first, but there are some very helpful tips on cleaning blades posted here on the site and as they will all tell you it really really is important to start with the simple things, water and soap and the such before you move to sandpaper and chemicals, ive used everything from water to acids to a dremel to get out tougher spots of rust and I always coat my items with a clear enamal lacker (easily removed with an hour or so soak in meneral oil) to help protect the new finished surfaces from rust and crud that builds up from handling, but you still have to wipe off the once and a while. Good luck with your projects Jens, sadily when that katar arrived it was in horrible horrible condition, and when I took it out of the shiping packedge one of the side bars broke off it had been so rusted, I cleaned her up as best I could and ended up donating her to a local musiem in my hometown, she was once a beautiful peice though.