Indian shield "dhal" for comment

[colin henshaw]

Hi

South Asian weapons are not normally my area of interest, but I recently bought this dhal as it has a good form, and state of preservation is also good. Could anyone tell me some more about the shield, such as date range, area in India where from etc...

The shield seems to have had some type of lacquer ? applied quite a long while ago, and I can see some slight traces of gilded decoration to the front.

Thanks in advance, also any useful tips on cleaning the shield, if any ?

[JamesKelly]

I, too, will be interested in the comments. Leather conservation isn't all that well addressed even in museum publications, and amongst American collectors tends to be the provenance of Confident Salesmen. Oil will soften it.

[thinreadline]

Hi Colin , this is most likely mid 19th century though could be earlier . Cleaning , well I would begin with a slightly warm damp cloth and with a little detergent and simply gently wipe it over. This will remove the dirt without making inroads into any remaining decoration or finish. Once it is as clean as you can get it by this means , let it dry naturally and then apply a good quality beeswax polish . I would not use any kind of leather softener or saddle soap and steer well clear of neatsfoot oil etc ... the latter tends to ruin the finish , remove gilding or paintwork , alter the texture and if there is any stitching it may rot it . There may be other methods , but this has worked well for me over a period of 40 years collecting leatherwork items including many dhal.s

[colin henshaw]

Thanks for the comments so far.

Thinreadline - very useful information re cleaning. I was thinking of removing the unsightly varnish/lacquer from the brass bosses also. Another point is... the leather handle straps to the back are very dry and cracking - any ideas as to the best way to preserve these ?

I've often seen these shields described as "Indo-Persian" - what's the difference between the two, are Persian shields usually metal ? If you have any representative examples of dhals, do please post them.

Presumably my shield, being fairly plain, would not belong to a high ranking person ?

Regards
Colin

[weapons 27]

hi colin
I think that your shield is Indian 19th
with regard to cleaning of leather I think we should just pass a damp sponge to remove dirt, without using detergent may remove the lacquer
!after letting dry and pass on a renaissance wax , let dry and rub with a soft brush.the straps to pass a moisturizing cream for leather...and dry...

Here are a few models of my colection or I spent renaissance wax top..
.the four Prime leather and the other three metal..

.the last one is indopersian

[Timo Nieminen]

Originally Posted by colin henshaw

I've often seen these shields described as "Indo-Persian" - what's the difference between the two, are Persian shields usually metal ?

Some Persian shields have 3 straps. The usual 2 in the centre, and a 3rd strap near the edge. To allow it to be worn with the forearm through the centre straps, and the hand can grip the edge strap, to make it easier to hold the reins when riding. IIRC, Robinson, "Oriental Armour", notes that this is a difference between Persian and Indian shields.

[colin henshaw]

Many thanks for the further helpful and informative comments. Nice collection Antoine - are you able to attribute the different styles of dhal to particular areas or cultures within the sub-continent ?

Any more information on these shields or examples/references etc. are welcome.

[weapons 27]

Originally Posted by colin henshaw

Many thanks for the further helpful and informative comments. Nice collection Antoine - are you able to attribute the different styles of dhal to particular areas or cultures within the sub-continent ?

Any more information on these shields or examples/references etc. are welcome.

Colin
I know that the painted shields are often of the India South, others are Indian without details!
I can put you in picture is a shield of Northern India and one other of the baluchistan the last picture

[weapons 27]

Originally Posted by weapons 27

Colin
I know that the painted shields are often of the India South, others are Indian without details!
I can put you in picture is a shield of Northern India and one other of the baluchistan the last picture

shield sontal people northern india
baluchistan shield

[thinreadline]

Here's a few of mine , excuse the pics , some are so high on the walls that I would need scaffolding to get a decent shot . Of particular note is my slightly elliptical dhal fashioned from a large turtle shell ... this type is mentioned in Robinson's Oriental Armour ... he quotes an example as being in the Museum fur Volkerkunde , Vienna .... does anyone have a picture of this particular example ?

[colin henshaw]

Originally Posted by thinreadline

Here's a few of mine , excuse the pics , some are so high on the walls that I would need scaffolding to get a decent shot . Of particular note is my slightly elliptical dhal fashioned from a large turtle shell ... this type is mentioned in Robinson's Oriental Armour ... he quotes an example as being in the Museum fur Volkerkunde , Vienna .... does anyone have a picture of this particular example ?

Impressive collection, thinreadline, thanks for posting. I especially like the dhal with the tiger decoration. Can you classify them into different areas/peoples etc ? I presume you have been collecting for some time...

Regards.

[thinreadline]

Originally Posted by colin henshaw

Impressive collection, thinreadline, thanks for posting. I especially like the dhal with the tiger decoration. Can you classify them into different areas/peoples etc ? I presume you have been collecting for some time...

Regards.

Thank you Colin. I have collected for a long time but am no expert. Even in books and museum collections attributions as to origin often contradict one another , and this is simply a testament to the movement of arms and armour over centuries . The small translucent hide dhal seen on the top left of the first photo shows Sindian style in its bosses which are typically in the form of 9 petalled flowers as seen from underneath. The turtle shell dhal is probably central west India . The large black hide dhal seen on the top right of the first pic is a common type found throughout India . Some dhals are somewhat flat but others tending towards the conical are associated with the Deccan . The shield with the roebuck horns is called a madu ( or maru ) and was used for parrying. Sometimes the horns are replaced with blades.

[weapons 27]

Originally Posted by thinreadline

Thank you Colin. I have collected for a long time but am no expert. Even in books and museum collections attributions as to origin often contradict one another , and this is simply a testament to the movement of arms and armour over centuries . The small translucent hide dhal seen on the top left of the first photo shows Sindian style in its bosses which are typically in the form of 9 petalled flowers as seen from underneath. The turtle shell dhal is probably central west India . The large black hide dhal seen on the top right of the first pic is a common type found throughout India . Some dhals are somewhat flat but others tending towards the conical are associated with the Deccan . The shield with the roebuck horns is called a madu ( or maru ) and was used for parrying. Sometimes the horns are replaced with blades.

nice collection
I allows me to add a comment on the madu shield are the horns of antelopes Indian blackbuck

[thinreadline]

Originally Posted by weapons 27

nice collection
I allows me to add a comment on the madu shield are the horns of antelopes Indian blackbuck

Thank you , I bow to your better knowledge on animal horns !

[Norman McCormick]

Hi,
Yep, Blackbuck antelope horn (Antilope Cervicapra), here's mine for a comparison.
Regards,
Norman.

[colin henshaw]

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

Hi,
Yep, Blackbuck antelope horn (Antilope Cervicapra), here's mine for a comparison.
Regards,
Norman.

A fine piece Norman, thanks for posting.

Regards.

[colin henshaw]

Originally Posted by thinreadline

Thank you Colin. I have collected for a long time but am no expert. Even in books and museum collections attributions as to origin often contradict one another , and this is simply a testament to the movement of arms and armour over centuries . The small translucent hide dhal seen on the top left of the first photo shows Sindian style in its bosses which are typically in the form of 9 petalled flowers as seen from underneath. The turtle shell dhal is probably central west India . The large black hide dhal seen on the top right of the first pic is a common type found throughout India . Some dhals are somewhat flat but others tending towards the conical are associated with the Deccan . The shield with the roebuck horns is called a madu ( or maru ) and was used for parrying. Sometimes the horns are replaced with blades.

Thanks for the very useful information thinreadline. Do you also have any Indian spears in your collection - if so, would you be able to post some please ?