What is it !!!? Ideas, comments please

Tony PP · 24th May 2013, 11:43 AM

Hello,
Just seen this in a village auction. I thought it looked interesting but have little knowledge of edged weapons. Any ideas on what it is and from where would be welcome.

RhysMichael · 27th May 2013, 10:17 PM

Looks like a telek or gozma carried by the Tuareg or Hausa But those that know African daggers better than I do will chime in soon I think

Sajen · 27th May 2013, 10:35 PM

Agree!

RhysMichael · 27th May 2013, 11:02 PM

Thanks Sajen for confirming I have not been on the boards in a long while so my memory could have been way off

Tony since if you can find a copy of it Armes traditionnelles d'Afrique ( by Tristan Bastide I think ) would be a good place to look and maybe African Arms and Armour by Spring

Iain · 28th May 2013, 08:15 AM

It's an arm dagger likely made in Bida by the Nupe. The all brass hilt and scabbard is distinctive.

kronckew · 28th May 2013, 10:44 AM

nice tuareg telek (arm dagger).

Tony PP · 28th May 2013, 02:45 PM

Thanks for the replies. I live in Cyprus so objects like this are likely to turn up from time to time. I like it so I will put a bid on it. Thanks Again

RhysMichael · 28th May 2013, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iain

It's an arm dagger likely made in Bida by the Nupe. The all brass hilt and scabbard is distinctive.

Thanks Iain I tend to lump them as Toureg though I know I should not.Its a bad habit. There are so many groups in that area. I do not know enough to know Taureg from Fulani from Hausa from Nupe et al. So always great to learn more from someone who does know the differences.

Iain · 29th May 2013, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhysMichael

Thanks Iain I tend to lump them as Toureg though I know I should not.Its a bad habit. There are so many groups in that area. I do not know enough to know Taureg from Fulani from Hausa from Nupe et al. So always great to learn more from someone who does know the differences.

Hi Rhys Michael,

Happy to help out, lumping all western Sahel items under the Tuareg banner is a common issue not helped by the extensive intermingling of these communities.

Thankfully there are a few cases where we can be more sure. This being one of them as there's a direct illustration in "Cultural Areas of Nigeria" by Hambly.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 3rd June 2013, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony PP

Hello,
Just seen this in a village auction. I thought it looked interesting but have little knowledge of edged weapons. Any ideas on what it is and from where would be welcome.

Salaams Tony PP ~ Why has the decorated brass arm band got uniformally made holes in it and is this the traditional style of arm band or is this a band taken from another item like a coffee pot ?

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Tim Simmons · 3rd June 2013, 06:09 PM

No they are not made from coffee pots. Just like other decoration on weapons the motifs come from a regional cultural pool. Here is one with no holes. The strange thing is that although most of these; although common are superbly made with a blade you could almost bend back to the handle and let go like a spring and carrying great artist merit, are not appreciated in the "market" . Where as just as common items with considerably less skill and artistic mastery command silly high prices. All this contradiction in values is starting to ruin my enjoyment of collecting.[

Iain · 3rd June 2013, 06:12 PM

What Tim said, not made from repurposed items. Bida in Nigeria had and has a long tradition of brass working, and was famed throughout the Sahel for their products.

RhysMichael · 3rd June 2013, 06:29 PM

Decorative motifs are something I wish we discussed even more here. I learn from it every time it is discussed. And often times it gives a great insight into what ethnic group an item actually comes from.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 4th June 2013, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

No they are not made from coffee pots. Just like other decoration on weapons the motifs come from a regional cultural pool. Here is one with no holes. The strange thing is that although most of these; although common are superbly made with a blade you could almost bend back to the handle and let go like a spring and carrying great artist merit, are not appreciated in the "market" . Where as just as common items with considerably less skill and artistic mastery command silly high prices. All this contradiction in values is starting to ruin my enjoyment of collecting.[

Salaams Tim Simmons ~ Thank you for posting those superb examples and apologies for not knowing the details ...

We live and learn !! I immediately dived into my little library and have come up with a number of African designs which I will shoot and post... Some of them are talismanic and others tell different stories..Shukran !!

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

24th May 2013, 11:43 AM	#1
Tony PP Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 26	What is it !!!? Ideas, comments please Hello, Just seen this in a village auction. I thought it looked interesting but have little knowledge of edged weapons. Any ideas on what it is and from where would be welcome. Attached Images

27th May 2013, 10:17 PM	#2
RhysMichael Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 520	Looks like a telek or gozma carried by the Tuareg or Hausa But those that know African daggers better than I do will chime in soon I think Last edited by RhysMichael; 27th May 2013 at 10:28 PM.

28th May 2013, 02:45 PM	#7
Tony PP Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 26	What is it !!! ? Thanks for the replies. I live in Cyprus so objects like this are likely to turn up from time to time. I like it so I will put a bid on it. Thanks Again

3rd June 2013, 06:09 PM	#11
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	No they are not made from coffee pots. Just like other decoration on weapons the motifs come from a regional cultural pool. Here is one with no holes. The strange thing is that although most of these; although common are superbly made with a blade you could almost bend back to the handle and let go like a spring and carrying great artist merit, are not appreciated in the "market" . Where as just as common items with considerably less skill and artistic mastery command silly high prices. All this contradiction in values is starting to ruin my enjoyment of collecting.[ Attached Images

27th May 2013, 10:35 PM	#3
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,795	Agree!

27th May 2013, 11:02 PM	#4
RhysMichael Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 520	Thanks Sajen for confirming I have not been on the boards in a long while so my memory could have been way off Tony since if you can find a copy of it Armes traditionnelles d'Afrique ( by Tristan Bastide I think ) would be a good place to look and maybe African Arms and Armour by Spring

28th May 2013, 08:15 AM	#5
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,693	It's an arm dagger likely made in Bida by the Nupe. The all brass hilt and scabbard is distinctive.

28th May 2013, 10:44 AM	#6
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,187	nice tuareg telek (arm dagger).

3rd June 2013, 06:12 PM	#12
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,693	What Tim said, not made from repurposed items. Bida in Nigeria had and has a long tradition of brass working, and was famed throughout the Sahel for their products.

3rd June 2013, 06:29 PM	#13
RhysMichael Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 520	Decorative motifs are something I wish we discussed even more here. I learn from it every time it is discussed. And often times it gives a great insight into what ethnic group an item actually comes from.