![]() |
![]() |
#1 |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: USA Georgia
Posts: 1,599
|
![]()
I put together this concept using a plastic garbage can with 6 steel rebars as electrodes. It works great! I am cleaning a mandau (private collection buy, the guy died and the wife put his stuff in the basement ARGH!.)
Should have taken a picture of the blade beforehand, but it was wall-to-wall red rust. After a two day soak, and one or two rubdowns with a plastic brush, most of the rust is gone. Usiing an old battery charger for the power source. Try this at your own risk. I am using it on a heavily rusted blade of no great value. There may some adverse effects I don't know about, but it sure looks like it is working well. Obviously can't remove pitting where the metal has combined with oxygen, but sure seems easier and less invasive than steel wool or sandpaper. The pictures show only the process done to the blade. No steel wool, sandpaper or anything else hzs been used The solution does not seem at all caustic, but remember it is water and you may not want to get your wood handles wet for a sustained several days. The bubbles do come up and the mandau handle is wet. http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/andyspatch/rust.htm |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#2 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Kent
Posts: 2,653
|
![]()
Hi Bill,
just a suggestion.....perhaps to prevent water penetration in a wooden (or similar absorbent material ) handle... 'cling film' (I'm not certain whether this has the same product name in the US) the handle and for added security a few elastic bands wrapped round that |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#3 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: On the banks of Cut Bank Creek, Montana
Posts: 189
|
![]()
I will added that process to my www.martinihenry.com/links.htm.
Here's a couple of others with a slight variations. Metal Care and Restoration • Electronic Bore Cleaner http://ca.geocities.com/snidey@roger...recleaner.html • Electrolytic Rust Removal http://www3.telus.net/public/aschoep...lyticrust.html |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#4 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Arabia
Posts: 278
|
![]()
nice patina, and neat method
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#5 | |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: USA Georgia
Posts: 1,599
|
![]() Quote:
Thanks |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#6 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Kent
Posts: 2,653
|
![]()
Hi Bill,
after following the link provided by DD ...there was a concern regarding this method..... 'there is a chance that metal cleaned this way may be subject to hydrogen embrittlement. This can happen in many processes such as electroplating or welding. It should not be a problem unless you are cleaning hardened steel such as saw blades, knives, or chisels. If you are and you intend to use the item (rather than simply displaying it) you may want to try baking the part in an oven, I've heard of using temperatures from 300°F to 440°F (150°C to 225°C) for several hours.' Apparently hydrogen atoms 'get into' the steel structure and weakens it.... HOWEVER.....there is the possibility that this only occurs when electro-plating. I have checked several websites regarding this method of rust removal...a 'sword' site and a site that deals with old tool collecting....BOTH state that this is a SAFE method.........bearing in mind that we are talking 'hardened steels in both of these sites.......it seems that 'hydrogen embrittlement' would be either unlikely or of little consequence..... But I am no metallurgist.... |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#7 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,503
|
![]()
In my experience, non-scouring Brillo pads and liberal WD-40 work very well. Bit smelly, but the results are instantaneous and there is no danger of damage to vulnerable parts and no concern about possible interactions with the blade. I suspect the mandau was patinated, and the patina was lost too...
This electrochemical method looks more suitable to semi-industrial uses. Also, knowing my cats, I am a bit leery of finding one or both of them de-haired ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#8 | |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: USA Georgia
Posts: 1,599
|
![]() Quote:
I don't like patination on metal. Love it on wood and ivory. I can make a blade look very patinated quite easily. But I am concerned with metallurgical changes. These blades could house spirits, maybe did at one time. Of course maybe brillo and wd 40 is invasive. the electrochemical process seems less invasive than rubbing or worse yet, a power buffer! Sheesch, where do you start and end in this arena? Gonna go check on my mandau blade. Still cooking. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#9 |
Deceased
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA, DEEP SOUTH, GEORGIA, Y'all hear?
Posts: 121
|
![]()
Hi all,
I have used this product,"Evapo-Rust" for rust removal and it worked well for me. The only caution is that at the air/solution interface line ( where the solution ends and the air starts) will cause an fine etch line ![]() This is the link to a source for the product, cheapest one that I found, and there are others as well. http://www.theruststore.com/ Read and follow the instructions on the container. The fine etch line it very light and easy to remove but it is better not to have it there in the first place. If anyone does use this product get back with us and let us know how you made out. It saved me a lot of work and no I do not have stock in the company, ![]() Gene |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#10 |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 370
|
![]()
Hi,
as mentioned many times before simple things like pineapple juice and some elbow grease work well too. I just had a pedang blade cleaned in this manner followed by ferric chloride treatment to bring up the pattern. Whilst I realise some prefer to leave blades 'as is', in a heavily laminated blade such as this one the skill of the maker and the beauty of the blade might have never been seen again without a clean up like this. There is a before and after of a section of the blade and then a full view of the results. DrD |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#11 |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: USA Georgia
Posts: 1,599
|
![]()
i have heard that pineapple juice is a good rust remover and certainly seems in everyday use in Java for that purpose.
How do you prepare it? Do you put pineapple slices in a blender? Buy ready made pienapple juice? |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#12 |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 370
|
![]()
Hi Bill, I believe this was just pineapple juice out of a can.
drd |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#13 | |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: USA Georgia
Posts: 1,599
|
![]() Quote:
Will give it a try. Guess the can is rust free. ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#14 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Houston, TX, USA
Posts: 1,254
|
![]()
Is that chisel bevelled? It looks more like a jimpul? I'm currently all about the vinegar.
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#15 | |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: USA Georgia
Posts: 1,599
|
![]() Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#16 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Houston, TX, USA
Posts: 1,254
|
![]()
what's a langgai?
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#17 | |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Aussie Bush
Posts: 4,141
|
![]() Quote:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2060 |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#18 |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Java, Indonesia
Posts: 49
|
![]()
Thanks alot bill and other fellows for sharing this tip
![]() Bill, do you have some picture of the mandau before using your tip ![]() Regarding the pienapple rust removal, we usually used the Pineapples/ Pineapples skin to remove hard rust. Just rubbed the rusted area with Pineapples skin couple of times until the rust fade away. just my 2 cent ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#19 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: On the banks of Cut Bank Creek, Montana
Posts: 189
|
![]()
We are going to find out how good the pineapple method is this weekend.
I got this iklwa today and it has some serious rust issues. So here are the before pictures. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() I'll post the after later... |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#20 |
(deceased)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: East Coast USA
Posts: 3,191
|
![]()
DD
Good luck that spear has some serious scale ![]() Lew |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#21 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: What is still UK
Posts: 5,772
|
![]()
From what I can see in this thread. I think one has to try and differentiate between cleaning and etching. Is one cleaning to a parade standard or to achieve an aesthetic appearance of antiquity. Where the physical removal of rust is controlled by material, hand and eye/taste. The blades that look cleaned with acid or heavy chemical etching, are they really then the same as they were?
This is does depend on whether the original culture was in the habit of cleaning with acids. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#22 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: On the banks of Cut Bank Creek, Montana
Posts: 189
|
![]()
Tim which method would you then recomend to achieve an aesthetic appearance of antiquity of this nasty rusty Iklwa?
Norrmally I would fly at this with brass brush and oil followed 0000 steel wool and oil. I just wanted to try a different method to see how it works. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#23 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: What is still UK
Posts: 5,772
|
![]()
Hi Douglas,
When I am faced with rust like this I use a brass or even a steel brush with oil to start with. Then from your local DIY store an assorted pack of abrasive paper for metal surfaces. Using finger tips, folded pieces of paper and lots of oil go through the grades. Also large lumps of course steel wool to get in awkward places or clean round sections. Wipe clean regularly to check on the progress. It is easy to work on small stubborn spots in circular movements. The end finish is up to you. In a couple of hours of careful work you should end up with a clean but old looking surface, there may still be dark stains on the blade but this is what I want to see and like. At the end I give the blade a good rubbing or polishing with the fine steel wool and shoe wax. Your spear does look a bit scary but I think a Saturday morning or afternoons work on this will end up with a nice looking spear that somebody would pay good money for. There is no real substitute for hard dirty and most often painful work. If the blade does not cut you, pieces of steel wool get into your fingers. Show us the before and after pics. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#24 |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: USA Georgia
Posts: 1,599
|
![]()
http://www.theruststore.com/Evapo-Rust-C21.aspx
I am using this with great success on some less-than-fine pieces. The problem, as with all chemical rust removers is that it leave the metal a bit grey and then you need to lightly sand. It also may clean too deep and get into the patina, but if you soak a short time and then wpie, you can control that. It also shows hardened metal as much darker. Not a substitute for vinegar, lime, lemon, etc. I made a good sword "soak tank" by capping one end of a three foot piece of PVC pipe and hanging it vertically. I like WD-40 and 400 grit to begin with. Watch your fingers, especially with these bloodthirsty Moro weapons! |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#25 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: What is still UK
Posts: 5,772
|
![]()
These two were almost as bad as the spear Douglas shows. Freddy can vouch for how rusty the throwing knife was as I got it from him. just taking your time with small pieces of folded paper and finger tips, plenty of oil, you can keep the age and help develop a patina.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#26 | |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Kent
Posts: 2,653
|
![]() Quote:
most tins of pineapples have syrup (water/sugar) as its 'juice'.....so its best to check the ingredients. Perhaps a better suggestion could be pure pineapple juice in a carton. Great thread Guys...... ![]() Last edited by katana; 10th February 2007 at 01:20 AM. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#27 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: California
Posts: 16
|
![]()
I haven't cleaned a lot of blades, but as an antique tool collector, I've had to deal with a lot of rust on iron planes, steel chisels, etc.
In the past, when confronted with heavy rust on intricate surfaces, a soak for several days in a solution of half and half vinegar and water will dissolve the rust and allow removal with a light pass of steel wool. Pineapple juice probably works in much the same way. While I have heard of it, I have not used the electric current method, but I suspect the results are rather similar to the acid method. The downside to the vinegar bath is that it not only removes surface rust, but it also removes the pockets of rust inside the metal. So while you clean away all the rust, you end up with ugly surface pitting. Also, the surface finish has a "pickled" look. To make the piece presentable, you have to re-patinate the metal. If the item is important and warrants the work, I agree with the hand-labor method. 2/0 steel wool and large amounts of WD-40 plus a lot of elbow grease removes the surface rust, polishes the surface of the metal, but leaves a nice warm patina, and does not expose the pitting. After this treatment, a little touch-up of the edges where the patina has been worn through is often helpful. I've found that a quick and easy way to do touch-up patination is with a dilute solution of gunsmith blueing and browning chemicals. You can pick up Some Birchwood Casey touch-up blueing and browning solution at most gun stores. I dilute them with water, so they work much more slowly. I warm up the part in the oven and lightly wipe the surface with the diluted browning solution, followed by a pass with the diluted bluing solution. It cuts the brightness of the bare spots. After it dries, you can polish with 4/0 steel wool, and protect the finish with a bit of mineral oil. The result looks attractive and natural. And it's easy to control the appearance once you've had a little practice. DD |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#28 | |
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 62
|
![]() Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#29 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: On the banks of Cut Bank Creek, Montana
Posts: 189
|
![]()
While watching the A&E DVD Shaka Zulu I came up with the solution to my problem, and another great way to derust. By the way if you are interested in Zulu ethnographic art, costumes and weapons this a great video.
In one of the scenes it shows the Zulu's getting ready to go to a battle and the are sharpening their spears on a stone. So this morning I went out in the garden and found a nice flat quartz like garden stone and started honing. ![]() For finish and detail I got a small stone. ![]() The result was a blade didn't have that fake flat gray chemically cleaned look but a more authentic look with a lot of charactor. ![]() Before and After: ![]() ![]() The blade now looks like a typical Zulu blade |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#30 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: What is still UK
Posts: 5,772
|
![]()
Nice one!
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
|
|