large old sword with strange hilt ( crescent shape guard ?)

[BBking]

Good evening dear members,
I have just bought this ''strange sword'' and wanted to show it to you for have your advice and maybe informations about the age and the origin of the blade , seems old,
19th century ??

and for the handle, never saw a guard like that !
Maybe only fantasy model ?!!

strange with his moon crescent or ram horn shape ???

For me the blade can come from Poland, Hungary-Romania or central Asia ??
looks a little like old turkish blades but I don't know about this handle..

[fernando]

Interesting sword, BBking. Let us see if the members also suggest that this example is European and we will move your topic to the European section for more elaborated opinions.

[ariel]

The handle looks pretty new and decorative.
The blade… First, it was shortened likely to mask its broken tip ( the fuller runs into it). But the presence of the yelman looks almost “indian” or “afghani”. There may be some decorations on the blade, although it may be just patina.

Overall, it seems to be a composition of unrelated parts.

[BBJW]

Ariel is correct. A composition of parts.-- bbjw

[BBking]

Thank you gentlemen for your comments,

The blade can be european as Fernando suggests with what looks like european type engravings, I will post pictures when I get it ! ( that's why I thought about close eastern Europa origin...)
Yes the blade must have been shortened, but maybe not that much !
I saw old eastern europa's swords with fullers going until 1cm close to the tip of the blade so thats why I bought this one, the blade is still really long, more than 80cm...
Cavallery sword ?
I will post pictures of the strange hilt when I get it,
try to see if it is multi piece asssembled / bad welded
And determine if its extra cleaned/polished or just recent stuff ...

Regards

[BBking]

I receive it,
just clean a little for look the hilt and the engravings,
the hilt must be more recent than the blade but it is really well made,
much more than I imagined, I think made of silver parts and it was maybe early gilted on some parts,
really nice the work on the '' crescent guard parts''
with small circle and rays like suns ? in what must be animal (?) scales ?
the ends can be a claw ? so maybe it represents eagle claws ?
Engravings ont the two sides of the blade until the fullers but sadly we can't see that much anymore...

the blade is not large but really thick and really thin and sharp near the tip,
as Ariel wrote , it was clearly longer before...

[BBking]

pictures of the blade and engravings

[Rick]

Originally Posted by BBking

really nice the work on the '' crescent guard parts''
with small circle and rays like suns ? in what must be animal (?) scales ?
the ends can be a claw ? so maybe it represents eagle claws ?

The design of the 'horns' at the tips of the cross guards look like those of a Ram.

[francantolin]

Nice sword !

The blade seems clearly earlier than the hilt.

It reminds me a pallash sword I have with an early european blade with a Passau wolf mounted on a 19th-20th nielled hilt and scabbard
( an old post, I will write the link)

The hilt work ( with niello on the circle ? ) and the shape make me think about Russian origin,
the curved/bent end of hilt remind me tatar swords,
just change the crescent guard with crossguard...

or maybe hungarian origin, a ceremonial/ gala sword
sadly without scabbard for see all craftmen work...

for the ''horns'' at the tips, it reminds me a too a ram but maybe a dragon shape with horns ( like William Blake's Red Great Dragon..)

[francantolin]

my sword with the Passau wolf, sure a straight model,
just for show the mix with old blades and later mounts...

your blade, with his european type engravings and his ottoman-indian yelman influence can maybe be as old as mine ( saw really old karabela's blade like that... )

and picture of blake's red dragon..

a dragon order/ Societas Draconistarum sword ?

Kind regards

[BBking]

Hello, Thank you for the messages.

I don't know if it's niello, the black parts seemed goldened before..
eastern european must be the origin but where exactly ?

Francantolin, Thank's a lot about russian or hungarian origin,
it can be a dragon claw with his scales... Dracul sword

I found this Magnate sword who has ''the same '' pommel inserts with stones and foliage decorations on the hilt.

For the small stones, only two more, cf picture of the pommel,
it was not possible to see it , it was all dirty, and it is battered but I cleaned with a toothpic and put a torch and red light came...Alleluiah !! ( no offense )

Fernando, don't know if it is better to move it in the european forum ?

[francantolin]

You're welcome !
Really nice and interesting pommel !!
if it's silver, you can try to open the gem settings without damage it.

I found an hungarian 17th-18th century sword with almost the same multi fullered blade,
with yelman and one fuller going till the tip
a local habit ( or this one was a little shortened too ? )
Have a nice day !

PS: THIS IS NOT A PANABAS

[fernando]

Moving topic to the European Forum, as per author's request.

[BBking]

Thank you Fernando !!!
I will post better pictures of the blade if I can !

[BBking]

Hussar or Pandour engravings ?
sharp old blade...
Kind regards

[fernando]

I figure that it will take a highly skilled eye to discern what those faded engravings represent.

[toaster5sqn]

A good trick with faded engravings is to open the photo in paint or a similar program and highlight the visible engravings with red or a similar contrasting colour. Best done by the original poster as he can refer back to the actual sword when trying to differentiate between engraving and scratches. once you have the surviving marks easily visible it's amazing how the whole picture starts to show.

Robert