ID of kris holder

Kasper · 17th February 2018, 12:37 PM

Dear all

Some years ago did I come across a kris (tombak?) holder at at local auction and could not resist to buy it.

I was wondering if anybody could share some light on the type, age etc.. ? Does it represent a dancer or some deity?

The total height is 59 cm, the opening for the kris/tombak is oval 38x25 mm.

Something puzzles me....
Placing a small kris would bring the upper part into close contact witht he face. Even my biggest kris do touch the face and there are marks after close contact on the face over the years. Could it perhaps have been made for a large keris which then would place the top even higher?

Best regards

Kasper

Battara · 17th February 2018, 06:18 PM

Could this be Sita, then consort to Rama?

Treeslicer · 18th February 2018, 05:06 AM

Given the sea-green and blue sarong, I have a suspicion... I'd treat that keris holder with considerable respect until someone says I'm totally mistaken. Ever heard of the Queen of the Southern Seas?

Kasper · 18th February 2018, 09:48 PM

hank you for your replies !

Both Sita and "Queen of the Southern Seas" sounds very interesting.

I admit that I have not heard of the "Queen of the Southern Seas" before :-( I am not familiar with Javane/Indonesian mythology, just have a basic knowledge about buddhistic and hinduistic religion etc..
Just looked her up on Wikipedia.

Is this goddess often pictured in society, reliefs, statues, stands etc. ?
I am really interested in knowing more.

David · 18th February 2018, 09:54 PM

A lovely Balinese figural keris holder. I could be wrong, but i don't think it is all that old. Perhaps post 1970s. But it is attractive and decently carved.
I am not prepared to name this figure , but i will point out that as far as i know the Queen of the South Sea is a Javanese mythology. This, i believe is a Balinese keris holder. I'm not sure that such a cross-over exists.

Treeslicer · 19th February 2018, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

A lovely Balinese figural keris holder. I could be wrong, but i don't think it is all that old. Perhaps post 1970s. But it is attractive and decently carved.
I am not prepared to name this figure , but i will point out that as far as i know the Queen of the South Sea is a Javanese mythology. This, i believe is a Balinese keris holder. I'm not sure that such a cross-over exists.

Go to whatever the Hotel Bali Beach calls itself these days, and ask them. They know who she is, all right

http://www.api.sg/main/index.php?opt...=36&Itemid=105

https://www.balidiscovery.com/messag...ge.asp?Id=9271

I'm rather surprised that anyone would carve her likeness into a keris stand, though, but it might be the sort of thing someone might sell to surfers. Until one's house washes away, of course.

Battara · 19th February 2018, 11:58 PM

That is why I mentioned Sita (or the Balinese name equivalent) since she is from the Ramayana, a version of which is hugely historically and religiously popular and important in Bali.

Kasper · 20th February 2018, 12:08 PM

Again thank you for your replies! Its a very interesting subject.

The holder also does not seem very old to me, so post 1970s is a good estimation I think. I also did not buy it as an antique. It happened to be part of a lot together with 4 keris.

David · 21st February 2018, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Treeslicer

Go to whatever the Hotel Bali Beach calls itself these days, and ask them. They know who she is, all right

http://www.api.sg/main/index.php?opt...=36&Itemid=105

https://www.balidiscovery.com/messag...ge.asp?Id=9271

I'm rather surprised that anyone would carve her likeness into a keris stand, though, but it might be the sort of thing someone might sell to surfers. Until one's house washes away, of course.

Thanks for the links Treeslicer. Perhaps you didn't notice, but this room in the Bali Beach Hotel that is dedicated to Nyai Loro Kidul was built at the behest of Indonesia's first President Sukarno. Sukarno is Javanese, so this was done to suit his own belief system, not the beliefs of the Balinese people. I still maintain that it would be unlikely that a Balinese keris holder would be made in the likeness of Nyai Loro Kidul. In modern times people tend to view Indonesia as a homogenous entity, but it is indeed made up of numerous different cultures. Just because a Javanese president of the country of Indonesia created an shrine of sorts for a Javanese sea goddess in a Balinese hotel room where he had hoped to stay from time to time does not mean that she would be accepted and venerated within Balinese keris culture as well.

Treeslicer · 2nd March 2018, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Thanks for the links Treeslicer. Perhaps you didn't notice, but this room in the Bali Beach Hotel that is dedicated to Nyai Loro Kidul was built at the behest of Indonesia's first President Sukarno. Sukarno is Javanese, so this was done to suit his own belief system, not the beliefs of the Balinese people. I still maintain that it would be unlikely that a Balinese keris holder would be made in the likeness of Nyai Loro Kidul. In modern times people tend to view Indonesia as a homogenous entity, but it is indeed made up of numerous different cultures. Just because a Javanese president of the country of Indonesia created an shrine of sorts for a Javanese sea goddess in a Balinese hotel room where he had hoped to stay from time to time does not mean that she would be accepted and venerated within Balinese keris culture as well.

Being commercialized into a keris stand hardly represents acceptance and veneration, IMHO.

It could just as easily be her sidekick Nyi Blorong. Everybody in Indonesia's probably seen that movie at least once.

Treeslicer · 2nd March 2018, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasper

hank you for your replies !

Both Sita and "Queen of the Southern Seas" sounds very interesting.

I admit that I have not heard of the "Queen of the Southern Seas" before :-( I am not familiar with Javane/Indonesian mythology, just have a basic knowledge about buddhistic and hinduistic religion etc..
Just looked her up on Wikipedia.

Is this goddess often pictured in society, reliefs, statues, stands etc. ?
I am really interested in knowing more.

Both Nyi Roro Kidul and the associated naga demigoddess Nyi Blorong (who shares much of the same iconography), have been well-known, respected, venerated, and feared in Javanese beliefs going back hundreds of years. Since 1980, however, when movies involving them began being made, they have become fodder for movies, television, and popular literature disseminated throughout the country. Paintings of the ladies have become a genre of their own, as have sightings reported in the tabloids.

FWIW, you can find examples of the Hindu gods portrayed as comic-book superheroes as well, without too much effort. Welcome to The Age of Commercialism.

17th February 2018, 12:37 PM	#1
Kasper Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Southern Denmark Posts: 6	ID of kris holder Dear all Some years ago did I come across a kris (tombak?) holder at at local auction and could not resist to buy it. I was wondering if anybody could share some light on the type, age etc.. ? Does it represent a dancer or some deity? The total height is 59 cm, the opening for the kris/tombak is oval 38x25 mm. Something puzzles me.... Placing a small kris would bring the upper part into close contact witht he face. Even my biggest kris do touch the face and there are marks after close contact on the face over the years. Could it perhaps have been made for a large keris which then would place the top even higher? Best regards Kasper Attached Images

18th February 2018, 05:06 AM	#3
Treeslicer Member Join Date: Feb 2018 Posts: 65	Given the sea-green and blue sarong, I have a suspicion... I'd treat that keris holder with considerable respect until someone says I'm totally mistaken. Ever heard of the Queen of the Southern Seas? Attached Images Last edited by Treeslicer; 18th February 2018 at 06:19 PM.

20th February 2018, 12:08 PM	#8
Kasper Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Southern Denmark Posts: 6	Again thank you for your replies! Its a very interesting subject. The holder also does not seem very old to me, so post 1970s is a good estimation I think. I also did not buy it as an antique. It happened to be part of a lot together with 4 keris. Attached Images

17th February 2018, 06:18 PM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,217	Could this be Sita, then consort to Rama?

18th February 2018, 09:48 PM	#4
Kasper Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Southern Denmark Posts: 6	hank you for your replies ! Both Sita and "Queen of the Southern Seas" sounds very interesting. I admit that I have not heard of the "Queen of the Southern Seas" before :-( I am not familiar with Javane/Indonesian mythology, just have a basic knowledge about buddhistic and hinduistic religion etc.. Just looked her up on Wikipedia. Is this goddess often pictured in society, reliefs, statues, stands etc. ? I am really interested in knowing more.

18th February 2018, 09:54 PM	#5
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,113	A lovely Balinese figural keris holder. I could be wrong, but i don't think it is all that old. Perhaps post 1970s. But it is attractive and decently carved. I am not prepared to name this figure , but i will point out that as far as i know the Queen of the South Sea is a Javanese mythology. This, i believe is a Balinese keris holder. I'm not sure that such a cross-over exists.

19th February 2018, 11:58 PM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,217	That is why I mentioned Sita (or the Balinese name equivalent) since she is from the Ramayana, a version of which is hugely historically and religiously popular and important in Bali.