Kindjal / Qama with gold and silver koftgari for ID

katana · 10th May 2011, 05:49 PM

Hi,

just received this very nice Kindgal (Qama ?). Lovely, nicely fullered blade with gold and silver koftgari. Horn handle with 'facetted' domed rivets. A big thank you to the formites that gave me some advice, Lew and Gene

Dom, kindly translated the first line of the gold script, thanks again Dom

NASR MENE ALLAH WAFAT KARIB WA PACHERE AL MOMENINE, YA MOHAMED, YA ALI
MOHAMED, ALI, ANNOUNCE TO THE BELIEVERS THAT THE VICTORY OF GOD AND THE CONQUEST IS FOR SOON

The second line of script is not Arabic ....if anyone has any ideas to origins or a translation...I would be most grateful. The silver script on the opposite side of the blade is also not translated, as the silver was tarnished and the previous pictures were not clear enough. Please forgive me if the script is upside down.

The well formed stamped marking has, what appears to be, a 'P' with a 'mirror image of a 'P' facing in the opposite direct. (the blurred picture below actually shows this more clearly than a focused pic

)

Could anyone tell me its likely origins, age (I'm lead to believe mid 19thC) etc

oal 26" (67 cms)
Blade 20" (51 cms) length 45mm widest point.

All comments gratefully received

Kind Regards David

A.alnakkas · 10th May 2011, 07:57 PM

Congratulations. This is a nice Kindjal!

I copied the pictures and reversed them. I liked what i found; from Quranic verses, to Imam Ali praise and Sufi references!

- Translation:

First picture top inscription: Nasrun min Allah wa fat'hun qareeb wa bashir al mu'amineen. Ya Muhammad. Ya Ali. In english it is: Close Victory from Allah and close conquest, So give glad tidings to the Believers (This is a Quranic verse). O Muhammad. O Ali. <<<< is not part of the verse.

First picture bottom inscription: Madad e ---- Tarikat Haji ---- Wali. This is not arabic so I cannot translate. But looks to a sufi reference

2nd picture top inscription: La fata illa Ali, Walla saif illa Thul'Fiqar. In english it is: No Warrior equal to Ali, No sword equal to Thul'Fiqar.

2nd picture bottom inscription: Ina Fatahna laka fathan mubina. 9 Rajab Sannah 1218 or 1318. In english it is: We have given You a clear victory (Quranic verse). 9th of Rajab, Year 1218 (or 1318:P)

katana · 10th May 2011, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

Congratulations. This is a nice Kindjal! The inscription pictures are upside down. Post it from right to left so maybe i would be able to read it!

Thank you very much

,
pictures now right side up

Kind Regards David

.

A.alnakkas · 10th May 2011, 08:18 PM

Hah, I copied and translated them already, check my first reply and enjoy

katana · 10th May 2011, 10:09 PM

Great work Abdullatif, thank you

Do you think the date relates to an event such as a battle ...or when the sword was made ...or 'something else' ?

9th of Rajab, Year 1218 is (approx) Tuesday 25 October 1803 C.E.
9th of Rajab, Year 1318 is (approx) Friday 2 November 1900 C.E

The possible Sufi reference is very interesting ....with the mention of Iman Ali can I assume that this sword originated in a Shi'a muslim community/country ?

Kind Regards David

A.alnakkas · 10th May 2011, 10:57 PM

Well, these particular Quranic verses are commonly used on swords + daggers and the date doesnt remind me of anything.

I've seen shia's use kindjals for tatbeer and maybe this comes from a shia community in syria or turkey but am not sure. I remember once finding a sword full of shia symbolism on a badawi arab sword so things travel and gets traded often. Too bad i didnt take picture of that sword, the blade was obviously persian but it had really unique inscription.

Atlantia · 10th May 2011, 10:59 PM

It's beautiul David!
An excellent example. Well done and hearty congratulations

katana · 13th May 2011, 01:07 AM

Thank you for the further info Abdullatif, appreciated.

Hi Gene,
thanks, I'm very pleased with my first Kindjal.

The stamp.....does anyone know whether this is a makers mark ? Could this blade be from Dagestan ? Most of the multi fullered blades like mine tend to be discribed as such.

Regards David

Zifir · 13th May 2011, 11:45 AM

Hi,
The second line can be translated as follows:

Help us, the patron of our order (tarikat) Hacı Bektaş-ı Veli

katana · 13th May 2011, 02:12 PM

Thank you very much Zifir for the translation

Could you tell me the language used ?

Kind Regards David

Zifir · 14th May 2011, 11:48 AM

Hi David,
The language in the second line is Ottoman Turkish. If we take the reference to the Bektashi order as an evidence, the origin might be either Anatolia or the Balkans. Also, I think the date is 1318 (1900/1901) rather than 1218.

Best,

Zifir

katana · 14th May 2011, 01:05 PM

Hi Zifir

,
again thank you for the information, very interesting

Kind Regards David

katana · 17th May 2011, 08:36 PM

I have been able to clean out the stamped maker's mark (?) and have drawn it (pic below) It is not two 'P' 's afterall.

Can anyone help ID please, thank you

Kind Regards David

.

10th May 2011, 05:49 PM	#1
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Kindjal / Qama with gold and silver koftgari for ID Hi, just received this very nice Kindgal (Qama ?). Lovely, nicely fullered blade with gold and silver koftgari. Horn handle with 'facetted' domed rivets. A big thank you to the formites that gave me some advice, Lew and Gene Dom, kindly translated the first line of the gold script, thanks again Dom NASR MENE ALLAH WAFAT KARIB WA PACHERE AL MOMENINE, YA MOHAMED, YA ALI MOHAMED, ALI, ANNOUNCE TO THE BELIEVERS THAT THE VICTORY OF GOD AND THE CONQUEST IS FOR SOON The second line of script is not Arabic ....if anyone has any ideas to origins or a translation...I would be most grateful. The silver script on the opposite side of the blade is also not translated, as the silver was tarnished and the previous pictures were not clear enough. Please forgive me if the script is upside down. The well formed stamped marking has, what appears to be, a 'P' with a 'mirror image of a 'P' facing in the opposite direct. (the blurred picture below actually shows this more clearly than a focused pic ) Could anyone tell me its likely origins, age (I'm lead to believe mid 19thC) etc oal 26" (67 cms) Blade 20" (51 cms) length 45mm widest point. All comments gratefully received Kind Regards David Attached Images

10th May 2011, 07:57 PM	#2
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	Congratulations. This is a nice Kindjal! I copied the pictures and reversed them. I liked what i found; from Quranic verses, to Imam Ali praise and Sufi references! - Translation: First picture top inscription: Nasrun min Allah wa fat'hun qareeb wa bashir al mu'amineen. Ya Muhammad. Ya Ali. In english it is: Close Victory from Allah and close conquest, So give glad tidings to the Believers (This is a Quranic verse). O Muhammad. O Ali. <<<< is not part of the verse. First picture bottom inscription: Madad e ---- Tarikat Haji ---- Wali. This is not arabic so I cannot translate. But looks to a sufi reference 2nd picture top inscription: La fata illa Ali, Walla saif illa Thul'Fiqar. In english it is: No Warrior equal to Ali, No sword equal to Thul'Fiqar. 2nd picture bottom inscription: Ina Fatahna laka fathan mubina. 9 Rajab Sannah 1218 or 1318. In english it is: We have given You a clear victory (Quranic verse). 9th of Rajab, Year 1218 (or 1318:P) Last edited by A.alnakkas; 10th May 2011 at 08:18 PM.

13th May 2011, 11:45 AM	#9
Zifir Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Istanbul Posts: 228	Hi, The second line can be translated as follows: Help us, the patron of our order (tarikat) Hacı Bektaş-ı Veli Attached Images

17th May 2011, 08:36 PM	#13
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	I have been able to clean out the stamped maker's mark (?) and have drawn it (pic below) It is not two 'P' 's afterall. Can anyone help ID please, thank you Kind Regards David . Attached Images

10th May 2011, 08:18 PM	#4
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	Hah, I copied and translated them already, check my first reply and enjoy

10th May 2011, 10:09 PM	#5
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Great work Abdullatif, thank you Do you think the date relates to an event such as a battle ...or when the sword was made ...or 'something else' ? 9th of Rajab, Year 1218 is (approx) Tuesday 25 October 1803 C.E. 9th of Rajab, Year 1318 is (approx) Friday 2 November 1900 C.E The possible Sufi reference is very interesting ....with the mention of Iman Ali can I assume that this sword originated in a Shi'a muslim community/country ? Kind Regards David

10th May 2011, 10:57 PM	#6
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	Well, these particular Quranic verses are commonly used on swords + daggers and the date doesnt remind me of anything. I've seen shia's use kindjals for tatbeer and maybe this comes from a shia community in syria or turkey but am not sure. I remember once finding a sword full of shia symbolism on a badawi arab sword so things travel and gets traded often. Too bad i didnt take picture of that sword, the blade was obviously persian but it had really unique inscription.

10th May 2011, 10:59 PM	#7
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	It's beautiul David! An excellent example. Well done and hearty congratulations

13th May 2011, 01:07 AM	#8
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Thank you for the further info Abdullatif, appreciated. Hi Gene, thanks, I'm very pleased with my first Kindjal. The stamp.....does anyone know whether this is a makers mark ? Could this blade be from Dagestan ? Most of the multi fullered blades like mine tend to be discribed as such. Regards David

13th May 2011, 02:12 PM	#10
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Thank you very much Zifir for the translation Could you tell me the language used ? Kind Regards David

14th May 2011, 11:48 AM	#11
Zifir Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Istanbul Posts: 228	Hi David, The language in the second line is Ottoman Turkish. If we take the reference to the Bektashi order as an evidence, the origin might be either Anatolia or the Balkans. Also, I think the date is 1318 (1900/1901) rather than 1218. Best, Zifir

14th May 2011, 01:05 PM	#12
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Hi Zifir , again thank you for the information, very interesting Kind Regards David