Bahari blade for comment

KLUNGKLUNG · 15th June 2014, 10:02 AM

Dear all,

I got this small Bahari blade with excellent Lar gangsir pamor (correct me if I am wrong) just recently but it was dressed up in a semi-new fantasy style Minang sarong with a Panjang handle! Surprisingly well balanced pamor but differ a bit on both sides of the blade and towards the tip ( slewah and / or dwiwarna?). Never saw a Bahari blade with such a clear pamor, extraordinary? The size is small with 25,5 cm ( without peksi). I am puzzled by it and wonder which sarong is proper for it.
The brown sheath ( sampir looks like Gowa / old Makassar style?) could do? Have exchanged the Tapa Kudah handle for the small ( but slightly to fat) Jawa Demam ivory handle. Better? Any comments / suggestions welcome.

Battara · 17th June 2014, 03:34 AM

Beautiful pamor!

Jean · 17th June 2014, 10:27 AM

Has anybody seen another specimen of a bahari blade with such a complex pamor? This reminds me of the balinese kris recently posted by Henri and with a similar pamor pattern Lar Gangsir.
I only have one bahari/ anak alang blade (from Malaysia?) with a common pamor pattern which was surprisingly revealed after warangan.
Regards

ganjawulung · 18th June 2014, 01:16 AM

Dear Klungkung,

Keris panjang, and also the much sought ‘bahari keris’ from Sumatra, is usually pamorless. Though not all pamorless. The iron they used, usually blackish gray iron. Or all black iron (in Jawa, they used to refer it as "hurab iron"). Sumatran people refer to it as "malela iron". You may see, at some peculiar Lampung traditional weapon, "badik kelingi", the very specific south sumatran badik with its triangular form of blade. Kelingi, usually all black...

Should be careful, if you get ‘keris panjang’ or bahari keris with pamor. This what my sumatran friend said.

Ganjawulung

Gustav · 20th June 2014, 04:47 PM

It's impossible for me to tell from pictures if it's an old, neglected blade, or a new, artificially aged. Yet old Keris Bahari with this Pamor do exist. I know of three blades, one of them old for sure, one which looks old and one which I have seen "in person". They all have more complete Greneng and blade shape than this one. Becouse of the state of preservation I cannot say about the quality of pamor work, yet it seems to be better at least on two of the other blades.

Actually I always was tempted to see these (old ones) as products of one workshop, becouse of the rarity of this pamor and superficial similarity of the blades. I also think, none of them is older then the very end of 19th cent/beginning 20th cent. Of course, it's an oppinion of a not well informed person.

I don't think, these blades were made by Minang - your scabbard is Minang. A Saribulan would look better.

ganjawulung · 21st June 2014, 01:48 AM

Dear Klungkung,

May I combine images of your interesting Sumatran keris, please? Incidentally six months ago, I was taking pictures at a keris exhibition at National Monument (Monas), Jakarta, a Bugis keris with beautiful largangsir pamor too. I was reminded of this Bugis keris, when you upload similar pamor of your keris panjang. Or at least, almost similar pamor....

Recently, I have seen quite a lot of bugis kerises with complicated types of pamor, such largangsir, blarak, etc.... Just for your comparison.

Ganjawulung

ganjawulung · 21st June 2014, 03:20 PM

Another angle of comparison....

Jean · 21st June 2014, 05:39 PM

Pak Ganja,
Very similar pamor pattern & iron colour indeed, from the same maker? What do you know about this Bugis kris?
According to the book Senjata Pusaka Bugis this pamor exists in Sulawesi and is locally called Tebba Bunga and I have one old blade with this pamor, see pictures before and after warangan.
Regards

ganjawulung · 21st June 2014, 06:30 PM

Dear Jean,

Really nice Bugis keris, Jean. If I were asked to choose, which keris Bugis better? The one I took photo at Monas Exhibition, or yours? No doubt, will choose yours. Although only from the photos, it appears that yours is old Bugis keris, and indeed with twist technique (in Bugis this technique called, "la kurisi") of pamor "tebbabunga" or javanese version "largangsir".

In my opinion, IMHO, the one I took photo at the National Monument was not too old bugis keris. Although I did not say it was very recent. But your keris, if I look at the appearance of the image, is quite similar with the one I saw in the book "Senjata Pusaka Bugis" (Bugis Heritage Weapons) by Ahmad Ubbe.

Among the Bugis people, IMHO, such prestige motive is believed to be a symbol of 'salvation' (asalamakeng, Bgs). Also from the meaning of five luks, in Bugis called "Lamba Lima" (five curves). For the Bugis people believed to be a symbol of "hope".

Just simply sharing. Hopefully useful.

Ganjawulung

Gustav · 21st June 2014, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

In my opinion, IMHO, the one I took photo at the National Monument was not too old bugis keris. Although I did not say it was very recent. But your keris, if I look at the appearance of the image, is quite similar with the one I saw in the book "Senjata Pusaka Bugis" (Bugis Heritage Weapons) by Ahmad Ubbe.

Ganjawulung

Actually the Keris posted by Ganjawulung is also to be found in "Senjata Pusaka Bugis", pages 203/204. I must say, the similarity to the initial Keris Bahari escapes me.

ganjawulung · 21st June 2014, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gustav

Actually the Keris posted by Ganjawulung is also to be found in "Senjata Pusaka Bugis", pages 203/204. I must say, the similarity to the initial Keris Bahari escapes me.

I don't think so, Gustav. So much different. The one on page 203, is a photo of Bugis Masterpiece -- a Lombok heritage, but in the form of Gowa keris, named "Pejanggik-Gowa II". The very special Bugis heritage. Please look at the difference....

Ganjawulung

Gustav · 21st June 2014, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

I don't think so, Gustav. So much different. The one on page 203, is a photo of Bugis Masterpiece -- a Lombok heritage, but in the form of Gowa keris, named "Pejanggik-Gowa II". The very special Bugis heritage. Please look at the difference....

Ganjawulung

That's page 197 in my book.

ganjawulung · 21st June 2014, 08:55 PM

Dear Gustav,

You are right, the same blade as shown on the page you mentioned. But not all the kerises shown, are old samples. But the two special ones, "Pejanggik-Gowa I" and "Pejanggik-Gowa II" of course they are the very special heritage. Not comparable to this one....

I took this picture at Monument Nasional, Jakarta last year. A "polojiwa" (three luks) of 'tebbabunga' (largangsir) blade....

Ganjawulung

ganjawulung · 21st June 2014, 08:59 PM

... And of course, not comparable to this special one. The Pejanggik-Gowa, one of the best Lombok heritage in the form of Bugis or Gowa keris....

Ganjawulung

Gustav · 21st June 2014, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

But not all the kerises shown, are old samples.

Dear Ganjawulung,

that's true.

Paul B. · 3rd April 2022, 09:31 AM

In addition to post1 I can add this quite similar keris. Remarkable resemblance.

David · 4th April 2022, 06:36 PM

That's a beauty Paul!

15th June 2014, 10:02 AM	#1
KLUNGKLUNG Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 24	Bahari blade for comment Dear all, I got this small Bahari blade with excellent Lar gangsir pamor (correct me if I am wrong) just recently but it was dressed up in a semi-new fantasy style Minang sarong with a Panjang handle! Surprisingly well balanced pamor but differ a bit on both sides of the blade and towards the tip ( slewah and / or dwiwarna?). Never saw a Bahari blade with such a clear pamor, extraordinary? The size is small with 25,5 cm ( without peksi). I am puzzled by it and wonder which sarong is proper for it. The brown sheath ( sampir looks like Gowa / old Makassar style?) could do? Have exchanged the Tapa Kudah handle for the small ( but slightly to fat) Jawa Demam ivory handle. Better? Any comments / suggestions welcome. Attached Images

17th June 2014, 10:27 AM	#3
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Has anybody seen another specimen of a bahari blade with such a complex pamor? This reminds me of the balinese kris recently posted by Henri and with a similar pamor pattern Lar Gangsir. I only have one bahari/ anak alang blade (from Malaysia?) with a common pamor pattern which was surprisingly revealed after warangan. Regards Attached Images

18th June 2014, 01:16 AM	#4
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	Bahari with pamor? Should be careful.... Dear Klungkung, Keris panjang, and also the much sought ‘bahari keris’ from Sumatra, is usually pamorless. Though not all pamorless. The iron they used, usually blackish gray iron. Or all black iron (in Jawa, they used to refer it as "hurab iron"). Sumatran people refer to it as "malela iron". You may see, at some peculiar Lampung traditional weapon, "badik kelingi", the very specific south sumatran badik with its triangular form of blade. Kelingi, usually all black... Should be careful, if you get ‘keris panjang’ or bahari keris with pamor. This what my sumatran friend said. Ganjawulung

21st June 2014, 01:48 AM	#6
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	Largangsir Pamor? Dear Klungkung, May I combine images of your interesting Sumatran keris, please? Incidentally six months ago, I was taking pictures at a keris exhibition at National Monument (Monas), Jakarta, a Bugis keris with beautiful largangsir pamor too. I was reminded of this Bugis keris, when you upload similar pamor of your keris panjang. Or at least, almost similar pamor.... Recently, I have seen quite a lot of bugis kerises with complicated types of pamor, such largangsir, blarak, etc.... Just for your comparison. Ganjawulung Attached Images

21st June 2014, 03:20 PM	#7
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	Largangsir Pamor Another angle of comparison.... Attached Images

17th June 2014, 03:34 AM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Beautiful pamor!

20th June 2014, 04:47 PM	#5
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,247	It's impossible for me to tell from pictures if it's an old, neglected blade, or a new, artificially aged. Yet old Keris Bahari with this Pamor do exist. I know of three blades, one of them old for sure, one which looks old and one which I have seen "in person". They all have more complete Greneng and blade shape than this one. Becouse of the state of preservation I cannot say about the quality of pamor work, yet it seems to be better at least on two of the other blades. Actually I always was tempted to see these (old ones) as products of one workshop, becouse of the rarity of this pamor and superficial similarity of the blades. I also think, none of them is older then the very end of 19th cent/beginning 20th cent. Of course, it's an oppinion of a not well informed person. I don't think, these blades were made by Minang - your scabbard is Minang. A Saribulan would look better.

21st June 2014, 05:39 PM	#8
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Pak Ganja, Very similar pamor pattern & iron colour indeed, from the same maker? What do you know about this Bugis kris? According to the book Senjata Pusaka Bugis this pamor exists in Sulawesi and is locally called Tebba Bunga and I have one old blade with this pamor, see pictures before and after warangan. Regards Attached Images

21st June 2014, 06:30 PM	#9
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	La Kurisi Dear Jean, Really nice Bugis keris, Jean. If I were asked to choose, which keris Bugis better? The one I took photo at Monas Exhibition, or yours? No doubt, will choose yours. Although only from the photos, it appears that yours is old Bugis keris, and indeed with twist technique (in Bugis this technique called, "la kurisi") of pamor "tebbabunga" or javanese version "largangsir". In my opinion, IMHO, the one I took photo at the National Monument was not too old bugis keris. Although I did not say it was very recent. But your keris, if I look at the appearance of the image, is quite similar with the one I saw in the book "Senjata Pusaka Bugis" (Bugis Heritage Weapons) by Ahmad Ubbe. Among the Bugis people, IMHO, such prestige motive is believed to be a symbol of 'salvation' (asalamakeng, Bgs). Also from the meaning of five luks, in Bugis called "Lamba Lima" (five curves). For the Bugis people believed to be a symbol of "hope". Just simply sharing. Hopefully useful. Ganjawulung Attached Images

21st June 2014, 08:55 PM	#13
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	Polojiwa Dear Gustav, You are right, the same blade as shown on the page you mentioned. But not all the kerises shown, are old samples. But the two special ones, "Pejanggik-Gowa I" and "Pejanggik-Gowa II" of course they are the very special heritage. Not comparable to this one.... I took this picture at Monument Nasional, Jakarta last year. A "polojiwa" (three luks) of 'tebbabunga' (largangsir) blade.... Ganjawulung Attached Images

21st June 2014, 08:59 PM	#14
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	Pejanggik ... And of course, not comparable to this special one. The Pejanggik-Gowa, one of the best Lombok heritage in the form of Bugis or Gowa keris.... Ganjawulung Attached Images

3rd April 2022, 09:31 AM	#16
Paul B. Member Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 205	In addition to post1 I can add this quite similar keris. Remarkable resemblance. Attached Images

4th April 2022, 06:36 PM	#17
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,123	That's a beauty Paul!