turkish straight sword- european blade

[francantolin]

Hello,
I just bought in an auction this interesting sword:
said to be turkish ( arabic stamps ) with niello and silver(?) hilt and scabbard mounts.
European blade with Pro honor et patria written ( Romanian motto ? ).

What do you think ?

[francantolin]

looks like this ottoman sword model I found on internet ( sadly without all the precious stones !!).

[Kubur]

Clever man!
and you got it for a very good price!

I think it's a kind of Hungarian palash clearly with an Ottoman influence as you said.
Congrats
Kubur

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Kubur

Clever man!
and you got it for a very good price!

I think it's a kind of Hungarian palash clearly with an Ottoman influence as you said.
Congrats
Kubur

I think we are in accord Kubur, I just answered on the concurrent post on this on European.

[Oliver Pinchot]

It's not Hungarian. Appears from the images to be Caucasian; please post closeups of the niello work on each mount and an example of the silver marks and we'll be able to nail it down

[francantolin]

Hello,

thank you all !

I post it too on the european armoury forum for have informations about the engravings on the blade.
I'll post other pictures of the sword and of the stamps when I'll receive it !
( it take often a looong time ! Customs ... )

Kind regards

[ariel]

Oliver may have a point: grips widening toward the crossguard indeed look Caucasian. Niello was done in Turkey, Iran, Greece....

He is correct, however: the markings (if any) may be hugely informative. Let's wait for the customs:-)

[Victrix]

Originally Posted by francantolin

looks like this ottoman sword model I found on internet ( sadly without all the precious stones !!).

Does anyone know why some Ottoman and Balkan swords have their rings set in parallel on either side of the scabbard, rather than alongside each other at different lengths of the scabbard?? It seems a curious practice.

[ariel]

Because they used baldricks.

[Victrix]

Originally Posted by ariel

Because they used baldricks.

Like the Sipahi in the picture on the right? Looks an awkward way to carry a sword unless mounted?

[Victrix]

Originally Posted by Victrix

Does anyone know why some Ottoman and Balkan swords have their rings set in parallel on either side of the scabbard, rather than alongside each other at different lengths of the scabbard?? It seems a curious practice.

This link to a website shows a karabela with four suspension rings on the scabbard, two set in parallel on each side. Makes you wonder if the trooper wore this sword strapped to his back??

https://www.antique-swords.eu/A61-18...Karabella.html

[francantolin]

Hello,
I'm still waiting the custom-authority export authorisation...they told me to wait another week...

Waiting for the shipping, I was looking for this particular sword shape:
oriental hilt with ''snakes'' guard and straight blade on the net.

I found two wonderful swords with the ''same'' shape in two of the nine swords of the Prophet Muhammad
( now in the Topkapi Museum Istambul )
: Al-Mathur and Al-Rasub,

Do this model of particular hilt and straight blade still been made in 19th-20th century in Arabia ? ( sorry for my bad english )
Attached Images

[S.Al-Anizi]

Originally Posted by francantolin

Hello,

I found two wonderful swords with the ''same'' shape in two of the nine swords of the Prophet Muhammad
( now in the Topkapi Museum Istambul )
: Al-Mathur and Al-Rasub,

Do this model of particular hilt and straight blade still been made in 19th-20th century in Arabia ? ( sorry for my bad english )
Attached Images

Hello,

These swords which are housed in Topkapi sport 16th century Ottoman fittings, which replaced (unfortunately) their original hilts and scabbards. They are not Arab in from.

However, cross guards with upward facing quillons with snake/serpent heads seem to have appeared in the 12th Mamluk sphere of influence in the levant, and disappeared by the 16th century with the evolution of the swords of the region into sabers (early Turkish sabers)

EDIT: However the blades are original 7th century blades, wootz as well, most probably made in India and imported into the Arabian Peninsula

Cheers!

[francantolin]

Hello,
Thank you for you precious comments,
Really interesting to learn about the ''late'' arrival of really curved blade in the 16th century in the region who is now ''the Reference''.

I wonder how will look like the old mounts in Arabic region in the 6-7 century ?
a T hilt shape like Al-Battar sword ? ( useful !! )


Kind Regards

[stelio]

congratulations!!!

A truly beautiful sword with Ottoman influences from the depths of the time with a European blade.

I believe these swords used them on the border of northern Eastern Europe influenced by the eastern technique of the Ottoman Empire and Persia.
Again, congratulations.
The best
Stelios

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by Victrix

Does anyone know why some Ottoman and Balkan swords have their rings set in parallel on either side of the scabbard, rather than alongside each other at different lengths of the scabbard?? It seems a curious practice.

,

two rings on either side of the scabbard near the throat as in UK swords from 1850-ish to date, allow for hanging the sword vertically from a belt or baldric while on horseback. the wearer usually also has a hook on his belt which he uses on the spine side ring to hang it in a more convenient angle while on foot. i seem to recall seeing a few scabbards that also had a third suspension ring further down the scabbard towards the chape 'drag' end, allowing for either method of suspension.

[francantolin]

Hello everybody,
I finally received my sword !!!! Long way from home !!!

The hallmarks/tughras consolidate me about ottoman mounts on an old european blade.

Is anybody specialised in tughras ? 19th-early 20th ?

what about the age/origin of the blade ? An Old Austro-Hungarian blade ?