Moro Keris for comments

[Royston]

I have had this one for a while now without doing anything to it.

I would be greatful for suggestions on origin and for cleaning.

Length is 62 inches. blade is 52 inches.

Pommel apprears to be bone. Stirrups appear silver.

The brown discolouration appears to be dried oil.

As usual, all suggestions and comments are welcome.
Thanks
Roy

[Atlantia]

Very nice Roy,

Pommel looks like Ivory from the grain.

[CharlesS]

Super piece....and an OLD one!

[Battara]

VERY NICE Sulu kris, though the scabbard throws me a little.

My biggest concern would be the active red rust - take that off first.

[kai]

Congrats, Roy, that certainly is a nice one! Did you get it out of the US?

The scabbard is a late replacement. I'm sure Jose can make a suitable one for this beauty.

I agree that the rust needs to be removed. However, in this case this needs special efforts not to loose the remaining inlay (seems to be silver). I'd suggest to remove as much rust as possible by very careful picking in the engraved lines with already missing inlay (start with wooden picks and use fine iron pins if needed - avoid scratches from steel needles though); also use very fine steel wool for cleaning rust off the blade surface (take care around the katik/gangya area to evenly clean everything including - as much as possible - hidden crevices since you won't be able to disassemble the asang-asang).

Once the blade looks almost clean, I'd give it a fine polish and continue with quickly staining the blade with hot vinegar (applied and rubbed in with a tough brush) which will also remove rust in tiny crevices, especially around the inlay. Even if you're really careful, there's still a good chance that some of the inlay may come off. However, this can be reapplied (take before and after pics to help solving the puzzle).

You could also apply lacquer to protect the inlay (can be removed again later) but this would also protect any remaining rust and IMHO more risky in the long run. You may want to use this for protecting the surface of the asang-asang, the ferule, and the silver covering the katik though.

BTW, the hole in the right-hand side of the ivory pommel probably once had an ivory peg securing it to the wooden core of the grip (this is usually a bit more hidden under the wrapping - just my best guess). Try to find a suitable piece of old ivory to replace it if possible.

Regards,
Kai

[kai]

Hello Roy,

I agree with the others that this obviously an above average datu piece displaying great Sulu craftmanship. I'm not sure it's older than, say, turn of the century though:

Does it have a seperate katik? (Is it the line ending at the upper asang-asang? An odd position - if tough to tell, the laminations will reveal more after staining.)

Regards,
Kai

[laEspadaAncha]

Originally Posted by Royston

I would be greatful for suggestions on origin and for cleaning.

Length is 62 inches. blade is 52 inches.

Hi Roy,

Beautiful kris!

I'm guessing the above measurements should read 62 cm and 52 cm, respectively...

Open question to Jose, Kai, et al... what is the significance of the arrow motif (engraved on either side of the fullering running beyond the stirrups onto the gangya)? Or are those even arrows, i.e, are they simply stemmed zig-zags?

[Battara]

Originally Posted by laEspadaAncha

what is the significance of the arrow motif (engraved on either side of the fullering running beyond the stirrups onto the gangya)? Or are those even arrows, i.e, are they simply stemmed zig-zags?

A good question. Not sure. Cato in his book Moro Swords says that they are arrows but does not clarify their meaning. All he says is that they are on datu pieces (and I choose to believe him based on what I have seen so far).

[Sajen]

Hello Roy,

beautiful kris, congrats. What is dried oil and what is rust? Would be much better when the engravings only have this oil inside and no rust. Much more easy to clean.

Regards,

Detlef

[imas560]

Always amazed at the depth of knowledge in regards to best approach to clean and restore these items (kai's step by step process). Much appreciated especially by a member such as myself who doesn't have access to experts in the field.
Awesome piece by the way.

[Royston]

Thanks everyone for you comments, especially to you Kai.
I have started cleaning and it is coming along nicely. More photos will follow as I go.

A couple more questions and comments.

What's the best product to polish the blade ?
What's the best product for cleaning ivory ?

The Keris was bought in the UK back in 92 ( I did say I had had it a while !! )

Regards
Roy

[Rick]

I'm pretty sure that this sword is no more than a hundred yrs old .
A really nice high grade example of its time .

[kai]

Hello Rick,

I'm pretty sure that this sword is no more than a hundred yrs old .
A really nice high grade example of its time .

First quarter of the 20th c. sounds reasonable IMHO. The engraving is less crisp at places...

Regards,
Kai

[kai]

Hello Roy,

What's the best product to polish the blade ?

A polishing compound/paste (e. g. as used for strapping razors) comes in handy. I'd recommend to try a fine compound first after thorough cleaning - if you can live with a speck or two on a blade, this is often enough (takes a bit of elbow grease - no power tools!). If you wish to remove stubborn corrosion, you'll likely need coarser stones or sandpaper (both lubricated with water or oil) and lots of effort (knowledge and experience, too). I'd suggest to post pics first; in many cases it may be preferable to pass this job on to a professional (qualified) sword polisher.

What's the best product for cleaning ivory ?

I don't think this pommel needs extensive cleaning - most of what I can see seems to be honest patina. Water with a tiny bit of detergent will probably take care of any grime. An old toothbrush and, if really needed, some toothpaste can be used for dirt in crevices. However, make sure that you don't get any paste on the grip binding - next to impossible to remove completely.

Regards,
Kai

[CharlesS]

I wouldn't clean the ivory, and I wouldn't put lacquer ANYwhere. Lacquer may have a short term reward, but in the long term it will not do anything but diminish the value and likely the beauty.

[David]

Originally Posted by CharlesS

I wouldn't clean the ivory, and I wouldn't put lacquer ANYwhere. Lacquer may have a short term reward, but in the long term it will not do anything but diminish the value and likely the beauty.

I wouldn't "clean" the ivory either, but i would condition it. I usually use mineral oil. It "cleans" it up without removing any of the patina and gives the ivory a nice luster.

[kai]

Hello Charles,

I wouldn't put lacquer ANYwhere. Lacquer may have a short term reward, but in the long term it will not do anything but diminish the value and likely the beauty.

The optional lacquer on the silver (inlay or next to the blade) is just for protecting it during the etching; it is to be carefully removed after finishing the blade. Shellac is a bit more forgiving and only needs ethanol as the solvent. Modern lacquer on wood/etc. is indeed a bad idea.

I agree that the (limited) protection is usually not worth the effort and hassle (if you know what you're doing and can work fast).

Regards,
Kai

[CharlesS]

Never heard of mineral oil for ivory, but seems like a plausible idea David. It doesn't leave any stain on the ivory? I know some thinner oils will.

[Gavin Nugent]

All ivory owners might find this useful...reference cited at the end;

Caring for Antique Ivory

Ivory is extremely sensitive to humidity and temperature fluctuations. The most important factor is keeping conditions as constant as possible to prevent shrinking and expanding. Extreme conditions or rapid fluctuations should be avoided (something to consider if shipping your canes from one climate to another). It is suggested that the humidity level be maintained at a level between 45-55%, with a temperature of between 65-72 degrees. Too much moisture, i.e. over 70%, can cause mold and mildew damage, including black spots and etching of the surfaces, warping and swelling. Avoid direct heat or outside walls, cold windows or any source of moisture condensation (basements or attics).

Avoid placing ivory pieces in direct sunlight. Direct sunlight raises the temperature and lowers the humidity, contributing to cracks and color change, specifically bleaching. Low light levels offers the best protection.

Antique ivory should be handled with care. White gloves are suggested; if not available, wash your hands carefully to remove hand oils and dirt, as ivory darkens as a result of contact with skin oils. Some darkening, or patina, is the result of the natural aging process. Ivory is porous, and susceptible to staining, so keep separate from corroding materials and other colored materials.

Methods of ivory hydration
Ivory tends to dry out with age. The older the ivory, the more brittle. A very light vegetable oil can be used to hydrate directly (avoid on scrimshaw as inks may run). Also suggested, every 6 months or so, wrap ivory pieces in soft cloth saturated with mineral oil or glycerin. Allow to sit overnight and wipe off the excess in the morning.

Cleaning ivory
Never attempt to remove the surface coat pigment or patina, as it affords protection for the piece, and is an indication of age. Many liquids, including water and cleaning solutions, are destructive to ivory, and should be avoided. Applying water may cause swelling and cracking. Extremely dirty pieces should be referred to a professional conservator, as well as pieces that are dyed, pigmented or inlayed. When in doubt, consult with an expert.

Dry cleaning methods may be attempted: Using a clean, soft paintbrush or toothbrush, carefully brush dirt off the object.

Ivory that is in good condition should be cleaned and wiped gently with a soft, clean cloth. If dirt remains, but no cracks, using a solution of 50% ethyl alcohol and 50% distilled water, dip a Q-tip into the solution and blot on a piece of paper towel. Use this to clean a small, inconspicuous area, and dry immediately. If this goes well, clean the entire piece in this manner, working on one small piece at a time, and drying immediately.1

Remember: When in doubt, consult with a professional.


1 The Cane Collector’s Chronicle, Volume 4, Number 1, January, 1993.

[Spunjer]

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Never heard of mineral oil for ivory, but seems like a plausible idea David. It doesn't leave any stain on the ivory? I know some thinner oils will.

nah, bro... i saturate couple pieces of tissue paper with it, then use it to cover the ivory piece. put a ziploc bag on top of it, then secure it with rubber band..

[Royston]

First cleaning photos. Blade only.

As suggested, it was performed with toothpicks, thin oil, very fine wire wool and emery. Although there is quite a bit of the silver missing, no more came out while I was cleaning.

I am pleased with the results so far and will continue when I get more time.

Regards
Roy

[Dimasalang]

Wow, awesome piece! Thanks for sharing. One of the best looking Krises I've seen in here.

[Maurice]

Great handsome blade Roy!

Maurice

[Battara]

Glad there wasn't a lot of corrosion on it! Nice work.

[DaveS]

I have used Old English Furniture Oil on my ivory pieces for many years.
It will really bring out the natural colors of the ivory. It also works well on
horn and antler. Don't use it on bone though, as it imparts a greasy look
to the material........Dave