Share your favorite laminated weapon!

xasterix · 31st May 2021, 10:01 PM

As the title suggests- among your weapons, what are your favorite laminated ones and why?

To start off- here's my kalis and kris, both of which have white-tinged laminations which glint when put to light. Not so clear on my cellphone camera, but you get the idea. I like them because of the contrast of the white-tinged areas on the rest of the blade and how it reflects on sunlight.

All laminated ethnographic weapons (not only blades) are welcome

Rafngard · 3rd June 2021, 03:06 AM

One of my favorite gunongs, previously posted here, has an impressive laminated blade.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=23088

Enjoy,
Leif

mariusgmioc · 3rd June 2021, 07:37 AM

One of my favorites is a Georgian laminated qama.
Another of my favourites is a small yataghan in Turkish ribbon.
Last but not least is a Balinese wedhung (I cleaned and re-etched the blade, so now looks much better than in the photos).

xasterix · 3rd June 2021, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rafngard

One of my favorite gunongs, previously posted here, has an impressive laminated blade.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=23088

Enjoy,
Leif

Very nice Leif, I think that has nickel mixed in also. Great contrast!

xasterix · 3rd June 2021, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

One of my favorites is a Georgian laminated qama.
Another of my favourites is a small yataghan in Turkish ribbon.
Last but not least is a Balinese wedhung (I cleaned and re-etched the blade, so now looks much better than in the photos).

Excellent laminations sir- the first two are great, but the wedhung is jaw-dropping, it's my first time to see one etched like that!

Rafngard · 3rd June 2021, 09:56 PM

Here's some better pics, along with another nicely laminated gunong.

Thanks,
Leif

A. G. Maisey · 3rd June 2021, 11:00 PM

This wedung pamor motif is a descendent of Dietrich Drescher's "Pamor Poleng", designed by Mr. Drescher and executed by Empu Pauzan Pusposukadgo of Surakarta.

This motif was later copied by the pandes of Aeng Tong-tong near Sumenep in Madura. I have a Madura keris bethok with the poleng motif.

David · 3rd June 2021, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

This wedung pamor motif is a descendent of Dietrich Drescher's "Pamor Poleng", designed by Mr. Drescher and executed by Empu Pauzan Pusposukadgo of Surakarta.

This motif was later copied by the pandes of Aeng Tong-tong near Sumenep in Madura. I have a Madura keris bethok with the poleng motif.

Alan, can i assume you were addressing the wedung in Marius' post #3?

A. G. Maisey · 4th June 2021, 03:44 AM

Yes David

A. G. Maisey · 4th June 2021, 04:04 AM

Yes David

Here is a photo of a picture in a pamphlet of the original by Empu Pauzan.

This keris was presented to a Government Minister, Bapak Mengko Polkam H. Surono.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=24665

JustYS · 4th June 2021, 04:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Alan, can i assume you were addressing the wedung in Marius' post #3?

Hi David,

Poleng motif or Kotak-kotak motif can be translated to Checkered motif.

I believe it is easier to remember if we know the meaning of the pamor's name.

Cheers,

A. G. Maisey · 4th June 2021, 05:27 AM

Here is my favourite laminated knife, not at all flamboyant, no fancy pattern welding, but over 4000 nominal layers of material, and it has been hardened & the temper drawn.

Battara · 11th June 2021, 05:14 AM

This is one gunong (that was stolen years ago) that I had with a very tight lamination:

Battara · 11th June 2021, 05:16 AM

Here is a Sulu kris I have, early, with an interesting double twist core.

Gonzoadler · 11th June 2021, 09:41 PM

My georgian Kindjal from the early 19th century is my favourite.

SanibelSwassa · 13th June 2021, 12:21 AM

Just got this piece from the auction of David’s collection. I am honored to be its keeper for a time.

pindang · 13th June 2021, 10:04 PM

Here’s a few with laminations… a kalis, barung, and a couple of spear heads.

Lee · 14th June 2021, 07:17 PM

Very nice! Those narrow light colored curving lines in the twist core (pattern-welded) panel of the left spear head will contain nickel.

pindang · 14th June 2021, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee

Very nice! Those narrow light colored curving lines in the twist core (pattern-welded) panel of the left spear head will contain nickel.

Good eye Lee. The narrow light colored lines almost look chrome in person.

Lee · 14th June 2021, 11:25 PM

Just before the pandemic struck, I had performed a survey of my collection with an XRF analyzer. When we think of medieval Europe and twist-core patterns, iron with phosphorus was most often used to get the lighter colored areas. Modern bladesmiths will use nickel or nickel alloys (even meteorite). Interestingly, many of the Moro pieces show use of both materials. I hope to finish analyzing the data before too much longer, but your spear showed the feature ever so well. It could be chrome, but I doubt it as it looks like an item of respectable age. Thank you again for showing these.

Ian · 15th June 2021, 08:37 AM

Lee raises a very good point about the usefulness of X-Ray Fluorescence (XRF) in assessing the elemental composition of blades. While there are some technical issues with detecting certain elements, the technique is non-destructive and well suited to analyzing the surface of weapons. It offers important insight, for example, into the metals used in old blades. Look forward to seeing what the results turn up, Lee.

Kurt · 15th June 2021, 11:06 AM

Here is an example of a Kindjal blade.
Kurt

Gonzoadler · 15th June 2021, 07:33 PM

Great and rare piece, Kurt!

Drabant1701 · 17th June 2021, 11:08 AM

When I bought this dagger it was very polihed but I thought I saw patterns in the steel. I etched and hoped for wootz, it was not. Even so I really like the pattern and how it transfers to the T-spine.

Rick · 17th June 2021, 07:45 PM

^^^
I'd love to see a picture of the entire piece.

Drabant1701 · 17th June 2021, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

^^^
I'd love to see a picture of the entire piece.

Sure thing Rick

Its a rather large dagger right around 50cm long.

francantolin · 17th June 2021, 10:12 PM

Amazing piece !!! I Love it !

Is the scabbard made of wootz ??

Rick · 17th June 2021, 10:21 PM

Wow!!
The blade looks like Bali pamor.
What did you etch it with?
Stunning.
Thank you.

Drabant1701 · 17th June 2021, 10:38 PM

The scabbard is velvet on wood.
I etched with ferric cloride first and polished it. Then I did a final etch with hot instant coffe (very, very, VERY strong)for 30 minutes.
I have not gotten that to work on wootz sadly.

francantolin · 19th June 2021, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drabant1701

The scabbard is velvet on wood.
I etched with ferric cloride first and polished it. Then I did a final etch with hot instant coffe (very, very, VERY strong)for 30 minutes.
I have not gotten that to work on wootz sadly.

On the pictures, I thought the scabbard was made of steel,

like this one, with a ''double blade''
here a decorative kard with hidden blade,
too fancy and a little toy-like but the damas seems to be real

31st May 2021, 10:01 PM	#1
xasterix Member Join Date: Oct 2018 Posts: 663	Share your favorite laminated weapon! As the title suggests- among your weapons, what are your favorite laminated ones and why? To start off- here's my kalis and kris, both of which have white-tinged laminations which glint when put to light. Not so clear on my cellphone camera, but you get the idea. I like them because of the contrast of the white-tinged areas on the rest of the blade and how it reflects on sunlight. All laminated ethnographic weapons (not only blades) are welcome Attached Images

3rd June 2021, 09:56 PM	#6
Rafngard Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Minneapolis,MN Posts: 342	Here's some better pics, along with another nicely laminated gunong. Thanks, Leif Attached Images

4th June 2021, 04:04 AM	#10
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,896	Yes David Here is a photo of a picture in a pamphlet of the original by Empu Pauzan. This keris was presented to a Government Minister, Bapak Mengko Polkam H. Surono. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=24665 Attached Images

4th June 2021, 05:27 AM	#12
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,896	Here is my favourite laminated knife, not at all flamboyant, no fancy pattern welding, but over 4000 nominal layers of material, and it has been hardened & the temper drawn. Attached Images

11th June 2021, 05:14 AM	#13
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,226	This is one gunong (that was stolen years ago) that I had with a very tight lamination: Attached Images

3rd June 2021, 03:06 AM	#2
Rafngard Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Minneapolis,MN Posts: 342	One of my favorite gunongs, previously posted here, has an impressive laminated blade. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=23088 Enjoy, Leif

3rd June 2021, 07:37 AM	#3
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,903	One of my favorites is a Georgian laminated qama. Another of my favourites is a small yataghan in Turkish ribbon. Last but not least is a Balinese wedhung (I cleaned and re-etched the blade, so now looks much better than in the photos). Attached Images Last edited by mariusgmioc; 3rd June 2021 at 09:00 AM.

3rd June 2021, 11:00 PM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,896	This wedung pamor motif is a descendent of Dietrich Drescher's "Pamor Poleng", designed by Mr. Drescher and executed by Empu Pauzan Pusposukadgo of Surakarta. This motif was later copied by the pandes of Aeng Tong-tong near Sumenep in Madura. I have a Madura keris bethok with the poleng motif.

4th June 2021, 03:44 AM	#9
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,896	Yes David

11th June 2021, 05:16 AM	#14
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,226	Here is a Sulu kris I have, early, with an interesting double twist core. Attached Images

11th June 2021, 09:41 PM	#15
Gonzoadler Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Location: Germany Posts: 244	My georgian Kindjal from the early 19th century is my favourite. Attached Images

13th June 2021, 12:21 AM	#16
SanibelSwassa Member Join Date: Mar 2020 Location: Sanibel Florida Posts: 104	1800’s Kris Just got this piece from the auction of David’s collection. I am honored to be its keeper for a time. Attached Images

13th June 2021, 10:04 PM	#17
pindang Member Join Date: Apr 2021 Posts: 14	Here’s a few with laminations… a kalis, barung, and a couple of spear heads. Attached Images

14th June 2021, 07:17 PM	#18
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 914	Very nice! Those narrow light colored curving lines in the twist core (pattern-welded) panel of the left spear head will contain nickel.

14th June 2021, 11:25 PM	#20
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 914	Just before the pandemic struck, I had performed a survey of my collection with an XRF analyzer. When we think of medieval Europe and twist-core patterns, iron with phosphorus was most often used to get the lighter colored areas. Modern bladesmiths will use nickel or nickel alloys (even meteorite). Interestingly, many of the Moro pieces show use of both materials. I hope to finish analyzing the data before too much longer, but your spear showed the feature ever so well. It could be chrome, but I doubt it as it looks like an item of respectable age. Thank you again for showing these.

15th June 2021, 08:37 AM	#21
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,203	Interesting technique ... Lee raises a very good point about the usefulness of X-Ray Fluorescence (XRF) in assessing the elemental composition of blades. While there are some technical issues with detecting certain elements, the technique is non-destructive and well suited to analyzing the surface of weapons. It offers important insight, for example, into the metals used in old blades. Look forward to seeing what the results turn up, Lee.

15th June 2021, 11:06 AM	#22
Kurt Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Germany Posts: 196	Laminated Kindjal Blade Here is an example of a Kindjal blade. Kurt Attached Images

15th June 2021, 07:33 PM	#23
Gonzoadler Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Location: Germany Posts: 244	Great and rare piece, Kurt!

17th June 2021, 11:08 AM	#24
Drabant1701 Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Sweden Posts: 181	When I bought this dagger it was very polihed but I thought I saw patterns in the steel. I etched and hoped for wootz, it was not. Even so I really like the pattern and how it transfers to the T-spine. Attached Images

17th June 2021, 07:45 PM	#25
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	^^^ I'd love to see a picture of the entire piece.

17th June 2021, 10:12 PM	#27
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 878	Amazing piece !!! I Love it ! Is the scabbard made of wootz ??

17th June 2021, 10:21 PM	#28
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Wow!! The blade looks like Bali pamor. What did you etch it with? Stunning. Thank you.

17th June 2021, 10:38 PM	#29
Drabant1701 Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Sweden Posts: 181	The scabbard is velvet on wood. I etched with ferric cloride first and polished it. Then I did a final etch with hot instant coffe (very, very, VERY strong)for 30 minutes. I have not gotten that to work on wootz sadly.