"new" Dha

rvr · 19th February 2015, 09:14 AM

Hello all,

Post nr 2 for me and just acquired a Dha sword in Thailand, accourding to the info i got its early 20th century from Northern Thailand, Lanna style Dha. I have seen pictures of simular hilted Dha's online but not with the small decoration at end of the hilt. Leather covered hilt with some shrinkage but seems to be original? Maybe a military Dha?
Please let me know what you think please, hope you like it, i do for sure

Regards!

rvr · 20th February 2015, 03:41 PM

Any observations? Know the pictures are not great but for the moment they are all i have? Any idea about age and if it it is a Northern Thai Dha?

Enjoy your weeken

Sajen · 20th February 2015, 06:11 PM

Hello rvr,

this dha is not a Thai daab but a Burmese dha, age ca. 1930-1945 with a very unusual scabbard. The leather cover is not used normally by the Burmese. My wild guess would be that a Japanese soldier have had this dha and have given it this scabbard. Let's see what others think about it.

Regards,
Detlef

ausjulius · 21st February 2015, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hello rvr,

this dha is not a Thai daab but a Burmese dha, age ca. 1930-1945 with a very unusual scabbard. The leather cover is not used normally by the Burmese. My wild guess would be that a Japanese soldier have had this dha and have given it this scabbard. Let's see what others think about it.

Regards,
Detlef

Yes can see the burmese writing on the blade

id say the leater cover is something the japanese would have done
its definitely not something the locals would do normally.
one could presume maybe that it was british who did it but brtish military use of dah have serial numbers and roof marks and such.. i could imagine them adding a more practical belt frog though but not a whole scabbard cover.. very.. japanese..

Sajen · 21st February 2015, 01:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ausjulius

Yes can see the burmese writing on the blade

id say the leater cover is something the japanese would have done
its definitely not something the locals would do normally.
one could presume maybe that it was british who did it but brtish military use of dah have serial numbers and roof marks and such.. i could imagine them adding a more practical belt frog though but not a whole scabbard cover.. very.. japanese..

Hello Ausjulis,

thank you for confirming my guess!

You're right, the writing is Burmese and the sword byself is as well typical burmese. The leather cover is what you see also by WWII shingunto, so my guess.

Regards,
Detlef

Nathaniel · 21st February 2015, 06:16 AM

rvr, nice dha (Burmese word for sword). Even thought not northern Thai it is a nice sword. Burmese swords tend to have shorter handles, and more likely to have a wide central fuller in later pieces. Good blade, solid piece though...functional, not just a tourist wall hanger

rvr · 21st February 2015, 08:58 AM

Thanks all,

Burmese not Thai with possible Japanese (personalized)
scabbard. The Japanese military sword do indeed
have leather scabbards besides the normal ones. Good observation!
Havent seen the dha myself yet and wont untill
next month when in Thailand. Will make better pictures than.
Lot to learn for me 😀

Thanks again, regards!

Sajen · 21st February 2015, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rvr

Leather covered hilt with some shrinkage but seems to be original? Maybe a military Dha?

Do you sure that the hilt is leather covered as well? Looks like brass to my eyes.

Regards,
Detlef

Ian · 21st February 2015, 12:19 PM

Hello rvr.

Thanks for posting this dha. As others have said, this is a Burmese style dha in what might be called the Shan/Tai form. The three segments of the hilt each of roughly equal length (metal-wood-metal) is a typical Burmese feature. The presence of a fuller is also a Burmese feature.
Since the eastern Shan States are adjacent to northern Thailand, and there is much diffusion of styles among the Shan/Tai and other groups in the area, it is perhaps not surprising that it was thought to come from northern Thailand. Basically we are talking about the so-called "Golden Triangle" area where the eastern part of the Shan States (Burma), southern Yunnan (China), northern Thailand and parts of Laos converge. As noted the leather-covered scabbard is a foreign influence, and might well be Japanese.

Nice sword from the early to mid-20th C.

Ian.

rvr · 21st February 2015, 07:50 PM

Hi Detlef,
Sorry i ment leather covered scabbard not hilt, hilt is indeed brass...my mistake

Ian,
thanks for the info, got the sword form a thai website that listed it as Northern Thai style but with the Golden Triangle area you mentioned i see the mixup of the dicription. Lovely area by the way

Again thank all for the help and info!
Small change i might be able to buy a Thai daab soon, if so i will post the pictures here off course...let the hunt and fun begin

Regards!

kronckew · 22nd February 2015, 12:40 AM

i gather the japanese in burmah frequently carried burmese dha that they took off locals.

i have one that i obtained from a chindit who swore he took i off a japanese soldier who didn't need it anymore after meeting the chindit who paid him a few bullets for it.

i suspect the japanese soldier had obtained it in much the same way.

the blade has a very thick unfullered blade at the grip and is well distal tapered. it is also well decorated as per below, so i suspect the japanese person was an officer, as a nco or lower would likely not have been allowed such a fancy blade. the scabbard has seen a lot of wear & field repairs. the grip is copper with a brass bolster and a central section covered in cord wrap. the silver niello is on both sides and the spine, the spine decorations have an inlaid gold border.

edited:
i took it out of where it was stored tonite to check it. the copper on the grip & pommel has tarnished to a dark patina. i thought originally that the bolster/guard was brass. after seeing how the copper has tarnished, i now think the bright bolster may be gold, more consistent with the niello . not a spot of tarnish or discolouration.

Andrew · 22nd February 2015, 02:36 AM

Nothing substantive to add to what has already been accurately and well-said.

Thanks for sharing this very nice example of the form.

Nathaniel · 23rd February 2015, 08:09 AM

I would lean towards categorizing this dha as a Burman, the dominate ethnic group in Myanmar (Burma), which is further south than the Shan state. Burman have the short handle and blades like these. Shan swords tend to have longer handles, more narrow decorative fullers if they have them...most of the time not. I think you do see this Burman type of dha more commonly associated with modern Banshay (Burmese weapons martial art).

rvr · 16th March 2015, 01:34 AM

Thanks all for the info

Found this relic of a Dha in my homecountry, apparently digged out of a Vietnam old battlefield together with more swords and armor...
Brass hilted obviously, anyways here couple of pictures of whats left of it and pictures of a few of the other ones, some still in its scabbard

Gavin Nugent · 16th March 2015, 05:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

i gather the japanese in burmah frequently carried burmese dha that they took off locals.

They certainly did kronckew.

I too have an exceptional ivory & silver repousse "story Dah" with provenance as such, that and a Kukri. I also have the regulation sized timber box that it was sent back home in with all the military postage and acceptance stamps and the history behind the acquisition.

Gavin

Gavin Nugent · 16th March 2015, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rvr

Thanks all for the info

Found this relic of a Dha in my homecountry, apparently digged out of a Vietnam old battlefield together with more swords and armor...
Brass hilted obviously, anyways here some pictures of whats left of it...

A nice find RVR.

kronckew · 16th March 2015, 11:36 AM

rvr,

a little spit & polish and a good brushing and you'll have those back in service in no time. (well, maybe not)

19th February 2015, 09:14 AM	#1
rvr Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 7	"new" Dha Hello all, Post nr 2 for me and just acquired a Dha sword in Thailand, accourding to the info i got its early 20th century from Northern Thailand, Lanna style Dha. I have seen pictures of simular hilted Dha's online but not with the small decoration at end of the hilt. Leather covered hilt with some shrinkage but seems to be original? Maybe a military Dha? Please let me know what you think please, hope you like it, i do for sure Regards! Attached Images Last edited by rvr; 19th February 2015 at 10:24 PM.

22nd February 2015, 12:40 AM	#11
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,184	i gather the japanese in burmah frequently carried burmese dha that they took off locals. i have one that i obtained from a chindit who swore he took i off a japanese soldier who didn't need it anymore after meeting the chindit who paid him a few bullets for it. i suspect the japanese soldier had obtained it in much the same way. the blade has a very thick unfullered blade at the grip and is well distal tapered. it is also well decorated as per below, so i suspect the japanese person was an officer, as a nco or lower would likely not have been allowed such a fancy blade. the scabbard has seen a lot of wear & field repairs. the grip is copper with a brass bolster and a central section covered in cord wrap. the silver niello is on both sides and the spine, the spine decorations have an inlaid gold border. edited: i took it out of where it was stored tonite to check it. the copper on the grip & pommel has tarnished to a dark patina. i thought originally that the bolster/guard was brass. after seeing how the copper has tarnished, i now think the bright bolster may be gold, more consistent with the niello . not a spot of tarnish or discolouration. Attached Images Last edited by kronckew; 22nd February 2015 at 01:48 AM.

16th March 2015, 01:34 AM	#14
rvr Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 7	Thanks all for the info Found this relic of a Dha in my homecountry, apparently digged out of a Vietnam old battlefield together with more swords and armor... Brass hilted obviously, anyways here couple of pictures of whats left of it and pictures of a few of the other ones, some still in its scabbard Attached Images Last edited by rvr; 16th March 2015 at 10:11 AM.

20th February 2015, 03:41 PM	#2
rvr Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 7	Any observations? Know the pictures are not great but for the moment they are all i have? Any idea about age and if it it is a Northern Thai Dha? Enjoy your weeken

20th February 2015, 06:11 PM	#3
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	Hello rvr, this dha is not a Thai daab but a Burmese dha, age ca. 1930-1945 with a very unusual scabbard. The leather cover is not used normally by the Burmese. My wild guess would be that a Japanese soldier have had this dha and have given it this scabbard. Let's see what others think about it. Regards, Detlef

21st February 2015, 06:16 AM	#6
Nathaniel Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 865	rvr, nice dha (Burmese word for sword). Even thought not northern Thai it is a nice sword. Burmese swords tend to have shorter handles, and more likely to have a wide central fuller in later pieces. Good blade, solid piece though...functional, not just a tourist wall hanger

21st February 2015, 08:58 AM	#7
rvr Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 7	Thanks all, Burmese not Thai with possible Japanese (personalized) scabbard. The Japanese military sword do indeed have leather scabbards besides the normal ones. Good observation! Havent seen the dha myself yet and wont untill next month when in Thailand. Will make better pictures than. Lot to learn for me 😀 Thanks again, regards!

21st February 2015, 12:19 PM	#9
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,203	Hello rvr. Thanks for posting this dha. As others have said, this is a Burmese style dha in what might be called the Shan/Tai form. The three segments of the hilt each of roughly equal length (metal-wood-metal) is a typical Burmese feature. The presence of a fuller is also a Burmese feature. Since the eastern Shan States are adjacent to northern Thailand, and there is much diffusion of styles among the Shan/Tai and other groups in the area, it is perhaps not surprising that it was thought to come from northern Thailand. Basically we are talking about the so-called "Golden Triangle" area where the eastern part of the Shan States (Burma), southern Yunnan (China), northern Thailand and parts of Laos converge. As noted the leather-covered scabbard is a foreign influence, and might well be Japanese. Nice sword from the early to mid-20th C. Ian.

21st February 2015, 07:50 PM	#10
rvr Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 7	Hi Detlef, Sorry i ment leather covered scabbard not hilt, hilt is indeed brass...my mistake Ian, thanks for the info, got the sword form a thai website that listed it as Northern Thai style but with the Golden Triangle area you mentioned i see the mixup of the dicription. Lovely area by the way Again thank all for the help and info! Small change i might be able to buy a Thai daab soon, if so i will post the pictures here off course...let the hunt and fun begin Regards!

22nd February 2015, 02:36 AM	#12
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Nothing substantive to add to what has already been accurately and well-said. Thanks for sharing this very nice example of the form.

23rd February 2015, 08:09 AM	#13
Nathaniel Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 865	I would lean towards categorizing this dha as a Burman, the dominate ethnic group in Myanmar (Burma), which is further south than the Shan state. Burman have the short handle and blades like these. Shan swords tend to have longer handles, more narrow decorative fullers if they have them...most of the time not. I think you do see this Burman type of dha more commonly associated with modern Banshay (Burmese weapons martial art).

16th March 2015, 11:36 AM	#17
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,184	rvr, a little spit & polish and a good brushing and you'll have those back in service in no time. (well, maybe not)