Tipu Sultan's Summer Palace

Ian · 12th March 2005, 09:19 PM

In 2003 I had the privilege of visiting Srirangapatna, just outside Mysore in southern India, which was the chief city of Tipu Sultan who had held the British at bay for much of the second half of the 18th C.

Tipu Sultan (1750-1799) was a major aggravation to the British, and you can find a glowing biography of Tipu here: http://home.btconnect.com/tipusultan/biog.htm

Tiring of Tipu's successes against them, the British enlisted the aid of Mahratta forces, and finally overran Sriringapatna in 1799. Tipu was killed during the battle. The chief of the British Forces and architect of Tipu's defeat was General Cornwallis (yes, the same Cornwallis who was defeated by American revolutionary forces) and a key field commander was one Major Arthur Wellesley who later became the Duke of Wellington and defeated Napoleon at Waterloo (with a big assist from Blucher's Prussian forces).

Tipu's summer palace and the ruins of Sriringapatna are ongoing testimony to this ruler who, despite being a Muslim, was a secularist and did not persecute any religious groups under his control. A man who appreciated science, a skilled diplomat, consummate strategist, and excelelnt general, he gave the British all they could handle in southern India. It took a susbtantially superior force to defeat him.

Here is a picture of the man painted in about 1795.

Ian · 12th March 2005, 09:27 PM

The palace gate and a view of the palace from its grounds.

Ian · 12th March 2005, 09:32 PM

Several cannon from the late 18th C. made in Tipu's own armory.

Ian · 12th March 2005, 09:42 PM

These pictures come from two large murals on the exterior wall, protected from the elements by a very wide verandah that could be enclosed.

The pictures depict Tipu's foot soldiers and cavalry. The footmen appear to be carrying a version of the "Moplah chopper" -- not surprising because Tipu's territory included much of the Malabar Coast. The cavalry seem to be armed with heavy sabers.

[Note to Conogre: The foot soldiers seem to have a fat-bellied bolo with a forked hilt and guard. See detailed view.]

Jens Nordlunde · 12th March 2005, 10:06 PM

Thank you Ian for showing these pictures. It is seldom such pictures are shown, but they are very interesting. What makes me wonder is, why the men at horse has such short swords, or is that an artistic thing?

Jens

Ian · 12th March 2005, 10:15 PM

Jens:

I don't know why the swords of the cavalry are so short.

Available information about the swords used by Tipu himself are that they were like the Indo-Persian tulwars throughout much of India in the late 18th C. I think the cavalry here have tulwar-hilted swords, so I assume the (lack of) length is an artistic thing.

Ian.

Tim Simmons · 12th March 2005, 10:22 PM

Please do not forget as English speaking people we have the bicentennial Trafagar Day this year on the 21 oct.Personely I am a Francophile and have spent many wonderful camping holidays there.Tim

Jens Nordlunde · 12th March 2005, 10:45 PM

Ian, have you noticed the way they hold the swords?

Jens

Ian · 12th March 2005, 11:32 PM

Yes, Jens. Kind of a mix. Some of the foot soldiers have blades that appear concave forwards, others convex forwards. I would have thought the "fuller" would run close to the spine of the blade on these weapons, so that they would likely have convex cutting edges. The cavalry seem to be holding their swords backwards and forwards too. Perhaps more artistic license.

LabanTayo · 13th March 2005, 01:45 AM

could it be that theyre resting the blades on their shoulders with the edge facing either in or out. if the edge is resting on the shoulder, then their hands would be in the correct position, whether the edge is in or out. kinda like holding a baseball bat on your shoulder. your knuckles would face upwards. just a thought.

Ian · 13th March 2005, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LabanTayo

could it be that theyre resting the blades on their shoulders with the edge facing either in or out. if the edge is resting on the shoulder, then their hands would be in the correct position, whether the edge is in or out. kinda like holding a baseball bat on your shoulder. your knuckles would face upwards. just a thought.

Shelley:

I think you are probably correct. As a practicing swordsman, do you think would this be a common way to carry a sword, to have it resting on the shoulder?

Ian.

LabanTayo · 13th March 2005, 08:01 AM

look at the picture in Cato's book, Moro Swords, there are some guys resting a Kampilan and a Kris on their shoulder. i've seen other pics of this happening in other cultures. i cant recall where, but i have seen it.

Jens Nordlunde · 13th March 2005, 10:30 AM

Having had another look at the cavalry it seems as if they rest the flat side of the swords on the shoulder, with either the edge towards their neck or away from it.

Another artistic detail is, that the horses seem to be galloping- they are usually shown like that, but what about the poor chap in the left side of the first picture, holding the parasol – he is on foot – he must be quite a sportsman

.

Ian · 13th March 2005, 01:47 PM

Jens:

The more you look at the detail in these pictures, the more you see.

The foot soldiers are all marching in step. All the horses are galloping. Despite the rather stylized presentation, there is a surprising amount of detail. In each of the main pictures there is at least one guy looking back over his shoulder. There is a little more detail in the picture of the foot men: the faces are not in full profile (which they appear to be in the cavalry) and each man has a completely different face, almost as if the artist was drawing real people.

I am sure these murals have been restored retouched over the last 200+ years, especially since they were directly exposed to the weather on the outside surface of the building. But they still retain the flavor of Moghul art. Probably the work of several different artists orginally, they are some of the best examples of large Moghul art work I have seen.

Ian.

Jens Nordlunde · 13th March 2005, 02:51 PM

Ian, these pictures are really very interesting, and as you say every man in the pictures is an individual. Do you have any more pictures you can show?
I have an old very big painting, showing a procession with a Raja/Maharaja on an elephant escorted by men armed with mazes where the heads are lion heads, and by women armed with mazes where the heads are lilies or lotus buds, in the right corner two children, dressed in richer dresses than the others, the Raja/Maharaja’s children(?), are like floating in the air. Unfortunately I don’t know from where in India it is, but one day I will pull myself together and try to find out. I am sorry that I can’t show any pictures as the mirror effect in the glass spoils it.

Jens

Ian · 13th March 2005, 09:36 PM

Jens:

Unfortunately these are the only two I managed to take before one of the Palace museum staff came running up and admonished me for trying to take pictures. "Very sorry, Sir, it is forbidden -- but if you pay me 100 rupees I will tell you the life history of Tipu Sultan." So I paid him 100 rupees for telling me what I could read in the guide brochure, and we agreed that I would not take any pictures of the forbidden type.

Such is the informal way of getting things done in India (and many parts of Asia). All proprieties were satisfied, no angry words were said, we were both happy with the deal, and I walked away with the two pictures I had already taken (total cost about 2 dollars).

Ian

anish25 · 2nd January 2012, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

Jens:

Unfortunately these are the only two I managed to take before one of the Palace museum staff came running up and admonished me for trying to take pictures. "Very sorry, Sir, it is forbidden -- but if you pay me 100 rupees I will tell you the life history of Tipu Sultan." So I paid him 100 rupees for telling me what I could read in the guide brochure, and we agreed that I would not take any pictures of the forbidden type.

Such is the informal way of getting things done in India (and many parts of Asia). All proprieties were satisfied, no angry words were said, we were both happy with the deal, and I walked away with the two pictures I had already taken (total cost about 2 dollars).

Ian

Hello Ian, Jens and others following this thread !

I am an armchair historian from bangalore. I am a Tipu enthusiast. Me being in the middle of his erstwhile kingdom has made it relatively easy to visit his places and do research...

I'l post some of the pictures i took.. and share it with you all

anish25 · 2nd January 2012, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

Jens:

Unfortunately these are the only two I managed to take before one of the Palace museum staff came running up and admonished me for trying to take pictures. "Very sorry, Sir, it is forbidden -- but if you pay me 100 rupees I will tell you the life history of Tipu Sultan." So I paid him 100 rupees for telling me what I could read in the guide brochure, and we agreed that I would not take any pictures of the forbidden type.

Such is the informal way of getting things done in India (and many parts of Asia). All proprieties were satisfied, no angry words were said, we were both happy with the deal, and I walked away with the two pictures I had already taken (total cost about 2 dollars).

Ian

Hi,
I had many more photos to upload but the uploader wouldnt allow me to upload pics greater than teh size of 1280x1280 px : /
many of my pics r in this format.. so i'll paste my album link here..

I request the moderater to allow this in the greater interest of the thread users.

http://www.orkut.co.in/Main#Album?ui...aid=1231356096

Lew · 3rd January 2012, 04:09 PM

Anish

The link is not working? You should be able to reduce the size of your pics and post them accordingly.

Lew

12th March 2005, 09:19 PM	#1
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,200	Tipu Sultan's Summer Palace In 2003 I had the privilege of visiting Srirangapatna, just outside Mysore in southern India, which was the chief city of Tipu Sultan who had held the British at bay for much of the second half of the 18th C. Tipu Sultan (1750-1799) was a major aggravation to the British, and you can find a glowing biography of Tipu here: http://home.btconnect.com/tipusultan/biog.htm Tiring of Tipu's successes against them, the British enlisted the aid of Mahratta forces, and finally overran Sriringapatna in 1799. Tipu was killed during the battle. The chief of the British Forces and architect of Tipu's defeat was General Cornwallis (yes, the same Cornwallis who was defeated by American revolutionary forces) and a key field commander was one Major Arthur Wellesley who later became the Duke of Wellington and defeated Napoleon at Waterloo (with a big assist from Blucher's Prussian forces). Tipu's summer palace and the ruins of Sriringapatna are ongoing testimony to this ruler who, despite being a Muslim, was a secularist and did not persecute any religious groups under his control. A man who appreciated science, a skilled diplomat, consummate strategist, and excelelnt general, he gave the British all they could handle in southern India. It took a susbtantially superior force to defeat him. Here is a picture of the man painted in about 1795. Attached Images Last edited by Ian; 12th March 2005 at 10:10 PM.

12th March 2005, 09:27 PM	#2
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,200	The palace The palace gate and a view of the palace from its grounds. Attached Images

12th March 2005, 09:32 PM	#3
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,200	Cannon from Tipu's time Several cannon from the late 18th C. made in Tipu's own armory. Attached Images

12th March 2005, 09:42 PM	#4
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,200	Murals on the walls of the palace These pictures come from two large murals on the exterior wall, protected from the elements by a very wide verandah that could be enclosed. The pictures depict Tipu's foot soldiers and cavalry. The footmen appear to be carrying a version of the "Moplah chopper" -- not surprising because Tipu's territory included much of the Malabar Coast. The cavalry seem to be armed with heavy sabers. [Note to Conogre: The foot soldiers seem to have a fat-bellied bolo with a forked hilt and guard. See detailed view.] Attached Images Last edited by Ian; 12th March 2005 at 09:54 PM.

13th March 2005, 10:30 AM	#13
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Having had another look at the cavalry it seems as if they rest the flat side of the swords on the shoulder, with either the edge towards their neck or away from it. Another artistic detail is, that the horses seem to be galloping- they are usually shown like that, but what about the poor chap in the left side of the first picture, holding the parasol – he is on foot – he must be quite a sportsman . Last edited by Jens Nordlunde; 13th March 2005 at 11:25 AM.

12th March 2005, 10:06 PM	#5
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Thank you Ian for showing these pictures. It is seldom such pictures are shown, but they are very interesting. What makes me wonder is, why the men at horse has such short swords, or is that an artistic thing? Jens

12th March 2005, 10:15 PM	#6
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,200	Jens: I don't know why the swords of the cavalry are so short. Available information about the swords used by Tipu himself are that they were like the Indo-Persian tulwars throughout much of India in the late 18th C. I think the cavalry here have tulwar-hilted swords, so I assume the (lack of) length is an artistic thing. Ian.

12th March 2005, 10:22 PM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Please do not forget as English speaking people we have the bicentennial Trafagar Day this year on the 21 oct.Personely I am a Francophile and have spent many wonderful camping holidays there.Tim

12th March 2005, 10:45 PM	#8
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Ian, have you noticed the way they hold the swords? Jens

12th March 2005, 11:32 PM	#9
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,200	Yes, Jens. Kind of a mix. Some of the foot soldiers have blades that appear concave forwards, others convex forwards. I would have thought the "fuller" would run close to the spine of the blade on these weapons, so that they would likely have convex cutting edges. The cavalry seem to be holding their swords backwards and forwards too. Perhaps more artistic license.

13th March 2005, 01:45 AM	#10
LabanTayo Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kansas City Posts: 177	could it be that theyre resting the blades on their shoulders with the edge facing either in or out. if the edge is resting on the shoulder, then their hands would be in the correct position, whether the edge is in or out. kinda like holding a baseball bat on your shoulder. your knuckles would face upwards. just a thought.

13th March 2005, 08:01 AM	#12
LabanTayo Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kansas City Posts: 177	look at the picture in Cato's book, Moro Swords, there are some guys resting a Kampilan and a Kris on their shoulder. i've seen other pics of this happening in other cultures. i cant recall where, but i have seen it.

13th March 2005, 01:47 PM	#14
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,200	Jens: The more you look at the detail in these pictures, the more you see. The foot soldiers are all marching in step. All the horses are galloping. Despite the rather stylized presentation, there is a surprising amount of detail. In each of the main pictures there is at least one guy looking back over his shoulder. There is a little more detail in the picture of the foot men: the faces are not in full profile (which they appear to be in the cavalry) and each man has a completely different face, almost as if the artist was drawing real people. I am sure these murals have been restored retouched over the last 200+ years, especially since they were directly exposed to the weather on the outside surface of the building. But they still retain the flavor of Moghul art. Probably the work of several different artists orginally, they are some of the best examples of large Moghul art work I have seen. Ian.

13th March 2005, 02:51 PM	#15
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Ian, these pictures are really very interesting, and as you say every man in the pictures is an individual. Do you have any more pictures you can show? I have an old very big painting, showing a procession with a Raja/Maharaja on an elephant escorted by men armed with mazes where the heads are lion heads, and by women armed with mazes where the heads are lilies or lotus buds, in the right corner two children, dressed in richer dresses than the others, the Raja/Maharaja’s children(?), are like floating in the air. Unfortunately I don’t know from where in India it is, but one day I will pull myself together and try to find out. I am sorry that I can’t show any pictures as the mirror effect in the glass spoils it. Jens

13th March 2005, 09:36 PM	#16
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,200	Jens: Unfortunately these are the only two I managed to take before one of the Palace museum staff came running up and admonished me for trying to take pictures. "Very sorry, Sir, it is forbidden -- but if you pay me 100 rupees I will tell you the life history of Tipu Sultan." So I paid him 100 rupees for telling me what I could read in the guide brochure, and we agreed that I would not take any pictures of the forbidden type. Such is the informal way of getting things done in India (and many parts of Asia). All proprieties were satisfied, no angry words were said, we were both happy with the deal, and I walked away with the two pictures I had already taken (total cost about 2 dollars). Ian

3rd January 2012, 04:09 PM	#19
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Anish The link is not working? You should be able to reduce the size of your pics and post them accordingly. Lew