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#1 |
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Described as Tibetan but is it. Sorry pics not good but best I have until item arrives.
Regards Stu |
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#2 |
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I would say it was later Tibetan or later Bhutanese.
Happy Easter! |
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#3 |
Keris forum moderator
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I bought something very similar last Thanksgiving. Here is the link to the thread about it:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5669 ![]() |
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#4 | |
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Will post better pics when it arrives. ![]() |
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#5 |
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I thinks this is probably a dagger widely used in North West of China, whose name is "Bao An" dao (Bao An is the name of one minority of China).
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#6 | |
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#7 |
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It is on the way so will post better pics when it arrives. Should have it tomorrow or next day.
Stuart |
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#8 | |
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http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...E5AEB600-1.jpg Are the Bao An ethnic Tibetans, or are they a separate ethnic group, perhaps like the Yi with a Tibetan influence? Thanks, Josh |
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#9 |
Keris forum moderator
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Good questions Josh. If you look in the thread linked to my example you will see that Ausjulius also mentions the Baoan.
"...the knife in the pick ,, looks to be baoan ... a moslem mongolian ethnic group from china.. language and culture is mixed between uzbek and mongols.. and some others" Since i also own one of these i am equally interested in nailing down it's cultural origins. More than one source have also put these forth as Tibetan so the answer isn't at all clear to me at this point. They are nice little knives regardless, but i would still like to find a definitive answer on whose nice little knives they are. ![]() ![]() |
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#11 |
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Arrived today and not a bad little piece. Not my collecting area, so it will probably end up being sold or swapped eventually, but in meantime here are a few more pics.
Dimensions are:Knife 7 1/8" with a blade of 3 3/4" In scabbard 8 1/2" overall The scabbard has leather between the silver bands (no rayskin) The throat of the scabbard also appears to be silver.The lower part of the scabbard is steel/iron and there is a wooden "plug" in the end. It was described by the previous owner as a Tibetan Goat Skining Knife. I would have though it too small for that purpose. Regards Stuart |
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#12 |
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I think these may be a little different type than the ones with the rayskin. The two posted and the one I have are all substantially similar with the solid arched pommel made of layers of copper and steel, horn handle scales, and a slightly shorter blade than the more usual examples of Tibetan utility knives. I thought it was a regional difference, but maybe there is a more specific group of people such knives can be attributed to. The ones I have seen appear to be authentic items for use, but not older than late 20th c.
Josh |
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#13 |
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I have had a few like this and a few with the ray skin over the years. Chinese and Tibetan dealers that I've bought from don't make any distinction between them, it's all khampa, but that doesn't necessarily mean there isn't some intentional difference beyond variation of style. The style of this particular example is usually a little heavier, less ornate, and shows hard use compared to the ray skin.
I've always noted the similarity to the Chinese eating knives with chopsticks. -d |
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#14 | |
Keris forum moderator
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Certainly both mine and Stu's were made for use and show such wear. I agree with Derek that there is a similarity with the Chinese trousse. These seem to be made for similar utility. |
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#15 |
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Hey Stu, i see that you have decided to sell this piece, so for now it would not be proper to continue the discussion here, but please let us know when it has actually sold (i see it is on hold at the moment) because i would like to see more definitive info come out on these interesting little knives.
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#16 | |
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The formal name of Bao An people is Bonan ethnic minority group, whose home is mainly at the foot of JiShi mountain, almost at the boundary of GanSu and QingHai province . The population of Bonan ethnic minority group is about 16,505. Their local language belong to Mongolian Austronesian. Their religion is Islam. In China, Bonan ethnic minority group is famous for their man-made knives-Bonan Dao. I will post some typical pictures of Bonan Dao and Tibetan Dao. ZhenJie Wu |
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#17 |
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Knives of Bonan ethnic minority group
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#18 | |
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![]() ![]() ![]() ZhenJie Wu |
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#19 |
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When I see this picture, I am not sure about origin of Josh's knife anymore.
![]() This is a Tibetan knife for sure. ZhenJie Wu |
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#20 |
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[IMG]tp://www.taiji.net.cn/BBS/UploadFile_Tj/2007-4/20074711554048399.jpg[/IMG]
![]() ![]() Every one I have to say that all pictures I posted belong to certain collectors, I just use them trying to discuss with you guys. The origins of these pictures are http://www.chinabbz.com/bbs/read.php?tid=23338 and http://hfsword.com. ZhenJie Wu |
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#21 |
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Thank you, good stuff
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#22 | |
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(http://s77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...rrent=01-3.jpg and http://s77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...ation383-1.jpg). Others that do have a guard seem to use more bone and horn than Tibetan things from further west (http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j65/pekhopai/10.jpg and see the one I already posted on this thread). One thing I have noticed is that the folding seems more refined than the usual bold lines of Tibetan hairpin construction. (http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...duation388.jpg) (http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j65/pekhopai/07.jpg) Notice how on this second one each dark line is actually made of many separate folds. However, the Yi things I have seen, and the one I have, show stronger lines typical of Tibetan things from further west. (http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...duation374.jpg) (http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...duation375.jpg) I suspect that the Yi may have traded for their blades. Thanks again for the extremely informative posts. I am beginning to get the sense of a regional style shared by several peoples each with their own characteristics. This is ethnographic weapons at its best! Josh |
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#23 |
Keris forum moderator
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I do understand how threads evolve, but i am not quite sure how we got for these little utility knives to these long pattern welded daos, so i would like to try to steer thr thread back to the original type of knife in question.
Frankly the constuction and materials used in the Bao An knives that ZhenjieWu posted seems very different from both the knife that started this thread and my own which i already linked to: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5669 ...so i am inclined to believe that these knives are NOT Bao An, but perhaps Tibetan as they have also been IDed as. ![]() |
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#24 |
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The Tibetan knife ZhenjieWu posted has a single line of copper on the pommel, and the pommel is no wider than the rest of the handle. This is the same style seen on Chinese, Mongolian, and Manchu utility knives. The Boan dao posted by ZhenjieWu all have flaring pommels with decorative copper/brass work. The two knives posted by other members share this characteristic pommel design, so until a similar example can be found from another culture, I will agree with ZhenjieWu that these are Boan dao.
Josh |
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#25 | |
Keris forum moderator
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![]() Last edited by David; 9th April 2008 at 02:31 PM. |
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