coronation sword of the kings of france

pallas · 12th September 2009, 06:54 PM

is there any shred of reality surrounding the claim that this weapon dates from the time of charlemange AND once belonged to him?? if not, what period does the blade date from i know it has probably been rehilted more than once, especially if it is half as old as its claimed to be..........

it has a cruciform hilt which i thought dident exist in the 700-800's...

broadaxe · 13th September 2009, 09:39 AM

Are you talking about this sword?
http://faculty.maxwell.syr.edu/gaddi...magneSword.jpg

This one cannot have been belonged to Charlemagne, as the hilt is far later and attributed to the late Viking/Norse style of the 13th c.

Jim McDougall · 13th September 2009, 04:49 PM

There are I believe at least a couple of swords attributed to Charlemagne, so I dont know which one Pallas is referring to. It is well known that swords in many cases were refurbished if they continued thier working lives as heirlooms into following generations. Swords were of course often repaired and serviced after combat as well, and often swords considered 'composite' are actually still essentially 'original' if elements corroborate in commensurate age.

The swords displayed in museums that are of regalia type status, such as these Charlemagne swords; the swords attributed to Ferdinand in Spain as well as those to 'El Cid' ; and the Holy Swords attributed to Mohammed in Topkapi, are all held to have been refurbished in much later periods.
This by no means lessens their veneration or esteem, only that they were reverently remounted for presentabiity purposes.

To me these famous swords are all the more fascinating for the subsequent history of thier movements and holding in the many years since their use as they were protectively cared for.

It seems there was some discussion and research on some famous swords, I think on the swords of El Cid and thier names.

Best regards,
Jim

pallas · 14th September 2009, 10:06 PM

broadaxe is correct...that is the sword im referring to......there is a portrait of louis XIV weilding that very weapon somewhere........

Jim McDougall · 16th September 2009, 10:17 PM

There ya go

12th September 2009, 06:54 PM	#1
pallas Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 53	coronation sword of the kings of france is there any shred of reality surrounding the claim that this weapon dates from the time of charlemange AND once belonged to him?? if not, what period does the blade date from i know it has probably been rehilted more than once, especially if it is half as old as its claimed to be.......... it has a cruciform hilt which i thought dident exist in the 700-800's...

13th September 2009, 09:39 AM	#2
broadaxe Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 332	"Sword of Charlemagne" Are you talking about this sword? http://faculty.maxwell.syr.edu/gaddi...magneSword.jpg This one cannot have been belonged to Charlemagne, as the hilt is far later and attributed to the late Viking/Norse style of the 13th c.

13th September 2009, 04:49 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,948	There are I believe at least a couple of swords attributed to Charlemagne, so I dont know which one Pallas is referring to. It is well known that swords in many cases were refurbished if they continued thier working lives as heirlooms into following generations. Swords were of course often repaired and serviced after combat as well, and often swords considered 'composite' are actually still essentially 'original' if elements corroborate in commensurate age. The swords displayed in museums that are of regalia type status, such as these Charlemagne swords; the swords attributed to Ferdinand in Spain as well as those to 'El Cid' ; and the Holy Swords attributed to Mohammed in Topkapi, are all held to have been refurbished in much later periods. This by no means lessens their veneration or esteem, only that they were reverently remounted for presentabiity purposes. To me these famous swords are all the more fascinating for the subsequent history of thier movements and holding in the many years since their use as they were protectively cared for. It seems there was some discussion and research on some famous swords, I think on the swords of El Cid and thier names. Best regards, Jim

14th September 2009, 10:06 PM	#4
pallas Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 53	broadaxe is correct...that is the sword im referring to......there is a portrait of louis XIV weilding that very weapon somewhere........

16th September 2009, 10:17 PM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,948	There ya go