The Scythe as a weapon.

[Peter Hudson]

I recently attended a most interesting course on scythe use as a tool for cutting the grass... and the group then commenced work in tidying up one of the ancient church yards of Saint Cuthbert over in Corsenside Northumberland ...
A number of things struck me on this item since it would seem to be weapon related as a lot of farm utensils are as well as its interesting old fashioned method of sharpening which I think is peculiar to the Scythe only but may indicate an ancient sword blade sharpening system? A technique giving the blade an extremely sharp cutting edge reminicent to the hollow blade edge on swords we hear of on some European weapons. However in relation to its ancient history as a farm tool I have placed this on Ethnographic ..but moderators may see this as a moveable feast...

The whats in a word connundrum crops up as it would be easy to suggest that Scythe comes from Scythia although the word root appears to be Old English ...more on that later...

I looked at Scythes on Library and there are a few references there but mainly of the shorter curved or hooked item...

I place the fine picture below to see member interest and will continue the detective work soon.

This picture is noted as of Polish Scythemen from 1863.

[Peter Hudson]

and from Wikepedia for the next bit... Scythes may date back as far as c. 5000 BC; they seem to have been used since Cucuteni–Trypillia settlements, becoming widespread with agricultural developments.[citation needed] Initially used mostly for mowing hay, it had replaced the sickle for reaping crops by the 16th century, as the scythe was better ergonomically and consequently more efficient.[citation needed] In about 1800 the grain cradle was sometimes added to the standard scythe when mowing grain; the cradle was an addition of light wooden fingers above the scythe blade which kept the grain stems aligned and the heads together to make the collection and threshing easier. In the developed world, the scythe has been largely replaced by the motorised lawn mower and combine harvester. However, the scythe remained in common use for many years after the introduction of machines because a side-mounted finger-bar mower – whether horse- or tractor-drawn – could not mow in front of itself, and scythes were still needed to open up a meadow by clearing the first swathe to give the mechanical mower room to start.[citation needed]

The Dictionary of Greek and Roman Antiquities of Sir William Smith argues that the scythe, known in Latin as the falx foenaria as opposed to the sickle, the falx messoria, was used by the ancient Romans.[citation needed] According to ancient Greek mythology, Gaia – the Greek goddess and mother of the Titans – gave a sickle made of the strongest metal to her youngest son Kronos, who is also the youngest of the Titans and god of the harvest, to seek vengeance against her husband Ouranos for torturing their eldest sons. The Grim Reaper is often depicted carrying or wielding a scythe. According to Jack Herer and Flesh of The Gods (Emboden, W. A. Jr., Praeger Press, New York, 1974), the ancient Scythians grew hemp and harvested it with a hand reaper that would be considered a scythe.[citation needed]

[Peter Hudson]

AND...Please see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythe_sword
QUOTE; Scythe sword
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The scythe sword of Thomas Müntzer and a representation of the "summer" half of its runic calendar.
The scythe sword (Sensenschwert) was a type of single-edged sword of the German Renaissance, related to the Dussack. It consisted of the blade of a scythe to which a sword hilt was attached. Like the falx or falcata of antiquity, it was thus a curved sword with the cutting edge on the inside (as opposed to the scimitar or sabre type with the edge on the outside).

The only known surviving example of a true scythe sword (its blade being made from an actual scythe), is that of Thomas Müntzer (1489–1525), kept in the Historical Museum, Dresden. This sword has a representation of a runic calendar incised on the blade. Demmin (1893) notes the existence of other sword blades of the early 16th century bearing runic calendars in Berlin, Vienna, Paris, Munich, Graz and Luxembourg. SEE below ....

It is possible that “scythe sword” may refer to the Thracian romphaia (Greek: ῥομφαία), most commonly a long curved blade with its[1] cutting edge on the concave or inside edge with a piercing point, attached to a pole (wood handle) that's shorter than the blade.

The Thracian romphaia is often compared to a Dacian falx, a longer version of a romphaia.

The romphaia was a close-combat bladed weapon used by the Thracians as early as 350-400 BC.

The two-handed falx is clearly related to the Thracian rhomphaia. It is a derivative of both the sword and the spear, used by the Dacians.

Both the romphaia and dax weapons were made in one hand and two handed versions. Most surviving examples suggest the smaller shorter “one hand” type actually would have been “hand and a half”, where the second hand was used more as a lever to make strokes, thrusts, recoveries and angle of attack changes more rapid and fluid.

So, “scythe sword” could refer to a romphaia, or dax possibly.

[Peter Hudson]

For an excellent video on Peening and Sharpening a Scythe blade please see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaWcNaceWWY

[Peter Hudson]

Khopesh.

This bronze khopesh, or sickle-sword, was found near Jerusalem and dates to the Late Bronze Age, circa 1500 B.C. The sword is sharpened on the outer edge of the curved portion of the blade. The khopesh originated in Egypt and was one of the signature weapons of Egyptian troops during the Middle and New Kingdom periods.

[Peter Hudson]

Dacian Falx.

[Teisani]

I wouldn't lump the kopesh with scythe-like weapons (like the falx) since one has the edge on the outer, the other on the inner. Not to mention very different cultures/geography/period.

[Peter Hudson]

A word on RHOMPHAIA and fromhttps://periklisdeligiannis.wordpres...man-rhomphaia/I QUOTE"Modern researchers of medieval military history often wonder what was the nature of the Byzantine weapon called ‘rhomphaia’? The rhomphaia (or rhomphaea) of Antiquity was a weapon of the Thracians, which consisted of a long straight or slightly curved sickle-shaped blade mounted on a long wooden shaft. If the rhomphaia was sickle-shaped, the cutting edge was located on the inner (concave) side of the blade. Specifically the curved rhomphaia belonged to the group of spears and swords with scythe blade which included the kopis, the machaira, the falcata, the falx and others which were used by various peoples of the ancient Mediterranean that is to say the Iberians, Celtiberians, Greeks, Thracians, Etruscans, Lycians, Carians, Lydians, Phrygians, Dacians and others. Their original source is unknown and sometimes the researchers try to locate it. Our opinion is that they are products of polygenesis".UNQUOTE.

https://periklisdeligiannis.wordpres...m-experiments/
RHOMPHAIA excavated below left and a reproduction at right.;

[Peter Hudson]

Originally Posted by Teisani

I wouldn't lump the kopesh with scythe-like weapons (like the falx) since one has the edge on the outer, the other on the inner. Not to mention very different cultures/geography/period.

Yes I agree however, The Kopesh does have another name...The Sickle Sword ...thus it gets in to the general picture. To get the full view of weapons down the ages it is fair to view early development in a variety of regions to consider the Scythe architecture development if any...I think my #3 defines where I may look regarding weapon developments on Scythe shaped blades and that does include Anciant Roman / Egyptian or other countries variants used or met on the battlefield.

One peculiar Scythe that I viewed on my Scythe course was a very sharp almost 4 foot bladed Flambouyant edged item that regrettably I didnt get a chance to photograph ...

It begins to be clear to me that to get a more useful weapon needed some thought to the hilt, handle or Haft fitted to the blade and what if any other attachments would enhance the item like a spear tip or hook to make it viable against cavalry? ... I think that is apparent in my first picture of this thread and a further group of Polish cmbatants that is about to show...see next post please. .

Peter Hudson.

[Peter Hudson]

Another Polish illustration of Scythe weaponry...

[Interested Party]

Originally Posted by Peter Hudson

For an excellent video on Peening and Sharpening a Scythe blade please see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaWcNaceWWY

Very, very interesting. I wish I had this information 30 years ago. A weapon would need a very soft temper for this technique. From what the gentleman said in the video the technique also seemed to work harden the edge a bit. For cloth armor it would create a very effective cutting edge. It seems to be a very frugal practice in that it does not remove very much metal for the initial sharpening.

Thanks for the thread.

[Teisani]

If you are interested in the falx, you can try Borangic Cătălin's work. It's in Romanian, but the pictures of relics are nice a reference. Here are a few of his works, you can find more, just search "falx Borangic Cătălin".

http://cclbsebes.ro/docs/sebus/08_Borangic.pdf

https://www.academia.edu/1978947/Bor..._reconstituire

https://www.slideshare.net/dadamamus...emvs-i-12-2006

https://www.laurlucus.ro/bibliotheca...-reconstituire

https://archive.org/details/borangic...ge/n1/mode/2up

And one source for the sica (in Russian): https://proviaspublishing.com/wp-con...0%B8%D1%8F.pdf

[Peter Hudson]

Originally Posted by Interested Party

Very, very interesting. I wish I had this information 30 years ago. A weapon would need a very soft temper for this technique. From what the gentleman said in the video the technique also seemed to work harden the edge a bit. For cloth armor it would create a very effective cutting edge. It seems to be a very frugal practice in that it does not remove very much metal for the initial sharpening.

Thanks for the thread.

Thank you for your post...Indeed I was completely amazed by these little gadgets making up the set of wheel jigs and the very basic technique that puts a razor edge on Scythes. This video went even further by using a aluminium rod to finally remove any burrs on the edge. This is a simple piece of easy to operate engineering that puts a superb edge on a Scythe ... and is really used on only one face of the blade. I would describe the edge as a hammered and pushed hollow edge.

My main interest in seeing this technique is related to Swords of Shotley Bridge and the conundrum of Hollow Blade production through a supposed 17th C tool brought there by a Swedish engineer/Industrial Spy... Reinhold Angerstein... but which largely seemed to be a fictional item until it was rediscovered by one of our Forum members and who wrote the book on Shotley Bridge Swords...SEE for example Swords of Shotley Bridge at Library by ...His Name on Forum is urbanspaceman.

[Peter Hudson]

Originally Posted by Teisani

If you are interested in the falx, you can try Borangic Cătălin's work. It's in Romanian, but the pictures of relics are nice a reference. Here are a few of his works, you can find more, just search "falx Borangic Cătălin".

http://cclbsebes.ro/docs/sebus/08_Borangic.pdf

https://www.academia.edu/1978947/Bor..._reconstituire

https://www.slideshare.net/dadamamus...emvs-i-12-2006

https://www.laurlucus.ro/bibliotheca...-reconstituire

https://archive.org/details/borangic...ge/n1/mode/2up

And one source for the sica (in Russian): https://proviaspublishing.com/wp-con...0%B8%D1%8F.pdf

Dear Teisani,
Thank you very much for a set of brilliant references I just spent an hour looking at the fascinating studies ... Excellent!!!

Regards, Peter Hudson.

[Jim McDougall]

This is a brilliant and as always, thorough, examination of the scythe and the weapons it inspired through history. Its an amazing and as seen here, complex topic as the etymology and use of the term of course seems to have been used in some variation such as referring to a deeply curved blade. Clearly the chief advantage of the inside curve is that the blade essentially grabs its target holding to it as it cuts.

The interesting and somewhat mysterious Black Sea 'yataghan' (pictured with burgundy scabbard) was in years before compared to the khopesh of ancient Egypt, which of course was a purely visual notion. It was also similar to an Assyrian sword with similar recurve. These 18th century swords were later determined to be Laz Bichagi from Transcaucasian regions and Anatolia.
I would note the Assyrian sword was shown in Burton (1884, p.208) as a 'sapara' and had a blade with inside curve. Other Assyrian weapons were hafted sickle types with deep curve as well.

Other modern versions of 'sickle' sword would be the shotel of Ethiopia of 19th century used into 20th. This deeply parabolic bladed sword was believed to facilitate reaching over or around a defending shield. (last image)

The 16th century German saber from Germany with sickle blade is most interesting and reminds me somewhat of art by Durer with similar dusagge type swords. The chain on the hilt is of interest and I hadnt realized this affectation was this early. It is of course well known on court and various European dress swords of late 17th through 18th c. and later.
The runic inscriptions are amazing!!!

Great note on the grinding wheels and these machines in the great Shotley Bridge mystery! the fascinating book by Keith revealing more on this subject as well as the complex intrigues of sword making in England in the17th into 18th century. Some of the most tenacious research I have ever seen.

[Peter Hudson]

Thanks Jim that is a great post and carries superb details and pictures adding depth to the theme ...Regards Peter Hudson.

I thought just to field a battle scene painted and showing Scythemen deploying for battle in Poland. Scythemen in 1831, led by Emilia Plater. Gouache by Jan Rosen

[urbanspaceman]

Hello Peter. Thank-you for this fascinating thread and thank-you even more for that peening video: I was transfixed.
The grass and weeds in my back garden would benefit from a good scything but will have to make do with a powered brush cutter.
However, it seems to me that the peening technique will make a good job of the edge on my garden machete; I am sure I can rig up a suitable anvil to practice with.
Incidentally: I didn't see anything about wheels... am I overlooking something?

On a separate note apropos of that double mention of my Shotley Bridge research: the book just keeps getting better and better as I continue to re-draft, amend and augment. One day I will have to stop. Up to date pdf versions are readily available... just ask.

[kronckew]

The khopesh appears to have evolved from the Epsilon Axe popular in the area at the time. Not from the sickle or scythe. Being ductile bronze, it (and the epsilon) was not used for chopping, but for slicing draw and push cuts. There was a 'chopping' version of the axe, the duckbill, that was designed for chopping, and the egyptian bronze penetrative axe was also.

[Jim McDougall]

Great observation Wayne, it does seem well established that many weapon forms did derive from various tools and utility implements. Pretty much anything can become a weapon of opportunity in the moment, but the dynamics of certain tools are obviously more suited for enhancement as weapons.

It is most interesting how little iron was available in ancient Egypt.

[Peter Hudson]

Dear Kronckew,

Indeed it is the difficulty in knowing what a Scythe looked like in ancient times which makes how if at all it developed into a weapon... It is probable that a sickle form developed into a weapon although where and when and what these weapons were is a hard guess... Add to that the number of sword types as in the second picture on https://www.pinterest.co.uk/buzzpinard/swords/
As the search spreads out so do the permutations and many must be developments in a similar but quite unrelated forms such as at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karambit Add the Panabas to that situation seen at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panabas

Closer to home may be the creation we know as Yatagan... however my initial question was I hope more specific and which I hope I have indicated in and arround the Polish variants of purely battle pole arms in the pictures at thread. As a caveat to that I am interested in knowing what Austria has to do with the tool and or weapon? since the Scythe is often termed The Austrian Scythe....and did that come about from a Sword type or Scythe introduced from Ottoman concepts into Styria?
Regards,
Peter Hudson.

[Peter Hudson]

Originally Posted by urbanspaceman

Hello Peter. Thank-you for this fascinating thread and thank-you even more for that peening video: I was transfixed.
The grass and weeds in my back garden would benefit from a good scything but will have to make do with a powered brush cutter.
However, it seems to me that the peening technique will make a good job of the edge on my garden machete; I am sure I can rig up a suitable anvil to practice with.
Incidentally: I didn't see anything about wheels... am I overlooking something?

On a separate note apropos of that double mention of my Shotley Bridge research: the book just keeps getting better and better as I continue to re-draft, amend and augment. One day I will have to stop. Up to date pdf versions are readily available... just ask.

Dear Keith, Yes the wheel confusion was because at first sight the Jigs looked like small wheels...A good scythe sharpener could finish dozens of Scythes a day using these tools. It seemed to me that hollow grinding may have been related to this effect. Look up http://scytheassociation.org/history/ as a great reference on Scythes.

Regards Peter.

[Peter Hudson]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Great observation Wayne, it does seem well established that many weapon forms did derive from various tools and utility implements. Pretty much anything can become a weapon of opportunity in the moment, but the dynamics of certain tools are obviously more suited for enhancement as weapons.

It is most interesting how little iron was available in ancient Egypt.

Hello Jim and you point on iron is well taken. I noted that often the weapon was left unsharpened and this could have been that it was more of a badge of office as a Pharoah guard...
Regards, Peter.

[Peter Hudson]

The history of Scythes is well covered at http://scytheassociation.org/history/

[Peter Hudson]

In choosing where to search for where to look at how weapons developed from The Scythe and/or the Sickle it is worth noting from a key reference at http://scytheassociation.org/history/QUOTE"The scythe is a tool specially adapted for cutting vegetation at ground level. There is no other reason for its existence: it is useless at hand height and (unlike the machete) very unwieldy as a weapon. Initially it was probably designed for grass; but as pasture became harder to find, and livestock were increasingly fed on different kinds of straw, the importance of cutting oats, barley and other grains close to the ground became more important and the scythe began to replace the sickle as a way of harvesting crops. The scythe is therefore found in most areas of the world where grass and grains such as wheat, barley, oats or rye are the predominate agricultural crop. The scythe belt emanates from Europe and the Middle East, but extends from the Mid West of Canada and the US A, through the whole of Europe, much of Russia, the Middle East, Egypt and some other north African countries, Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Kirghizstan and other colonies of the former USSR, a few parts of China and of the Indian subcontinent to Australia".UNQUOTE.

[Peter Hudson]

During the Kościuszko Uprising, Chrystian_Piotr_Aigner pictured below wrote "Krótka nauka o kosach i pikach" ("A Brief Treatise on Scythes and Pikes"), which provided a theory for operating on the field of battle with formations of scythemen and pikemen.[9]

[Peter Hudson]

i DISCOVERED A SUPERB RENDITION about Scythes...as weapons of war at
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journ...3D72E20A96F73D

It gives a breakdown of more than 500 years of conclusive use of Scythes as weapons of war in Europe and names many museums where they are displayed.

Regards, Peter Hudson.

The detail below; The Morning of Sedgemoor by Edgar Bundy (1862–1922). The artist shows the improvised nature of the weapon, the blade lashed to a crudely dressed sapling. Image: Tate/Digital Image © Tate, London 2014. The Battle detail is: The Battle of Sedgemoor was the last and decisive engagement between the Kingdom of England and rebels led by the Duke of Monmouth during the Monmouth rebellion, fought on 6 July 1685.

[Peter Hudson]

....a further atmospheric piece of artwork showing the Scythe as a war weapon from Poland. At the Polish Military Museum ... From 1794.

[thinreadline]

elslewhere I have posted what I believe to be a Chinese polearm which cane out of a large castle like manor house in North Wales along with this scythe type polearm

[Peter Hudson]

It apppears that many battles included scythes converted to weapons and the example you show may be one of these. My reference at #26 above gives dozens of examples all over Europe and in England plus the museums in which examples may still be seen.

Thanks for adding this example.



The Painting below illustrates Russian Guns being over run by charging Polish soldiers many weilding Scythe weapons. .

[werecow]

This thread and particularly the scythe sword above reminds me of this bizarre little sword I picked up a few years ago from a Dutch vendor.

It's about 74cm long out of the scabbard. POB about 9.5cm from the guard.
The blade is not sharpened, or possibly blunted (has about a .5mm edge; no patina and some file marks on the edge that are hard to capture on camera).
I can't comment as to the quality of the steel but it has significant distal taper, from 8mm at the guard to about 3mm at the end of the fuller. It has a few seemingly random letters stamped into it QHUOS and below it W1I and then an upside down 7.
The guard seems to be nickel plated. I think the grip wrapping and washer are some sort of imitation sharkskin and they're not very substantial. The pommel has an obvious nut and bolt construction, but I haven't tried opening it up for fear of damaging something as I am a novice.
The scabbard is rather thin metal and seems to have been blued. The rings are on the inside of the curve, and it has a working locking mechanism that fits the button/clip on the guard.

At first I thought it might be a replacement blade on an old D-guard, but the scabbard is clearly made for it.

I'd love your opinion on it... Since it's a sickle sword and I got it from an area near Belgium, maybe central African (Congo, Ethiopia)? European late 19th/early 20th century april fool's joke? Modern day smithing experiment?