Unknown sword

ernesto.e · 18th April 2006, 04:39 PM

Good morning gentleman,

I am Ernesto Esquivel from Mexico and I am a new member to this furom.
My main fucos are Chinese weapons but I'm still new and learning. One week
ago there was a sword on ebay but was not sure if its Chinese, but the price
went up high. ebay #7 4 0 5 4 7 8 0 8 6, can someone tell me what this is and why it came out high.

Gracias,
Ernesto

Lew · 18th April 2006, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ernesto.e

Good morning gentleman,

I am Ernesto Esquivel from Mexico and I am a new member to this furom.
My main fucos are Chinese weapons but I'm still new and learning. One week
ago there was a sword on ebay but was not sure if its Chinese, but the price
went up high. ebay #7 4 0 5 4 7 8 0 8 6, can someone tell me what this is and why it came out high.

Gracias,
Ernesto

Hi Ernesto

Welcome to the forum. The sword in question is an excellent ivory hilted Moro Datu (Chief's) kris from the Philippines. We do not discuss prices on the forum but all I can say is that is one the the nicest ones I have seen in a while. You did good.

Lew

ibeam · 18th April 2006, 05:38 PM

I think you have the wrong Title for the thread post.

Its a WELL KNOWN SWORD!

ernesto.e · 18th April 2006, 05:44 PM

Gracias, Loueblades for you information.

Good morning Ibeam, what do you mean I have the wrong tittle for this sword? can you explain pls.?

Lew · 18th April 2006, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ernesto.e

Gracias, Loueblades for you information.

Good morning Ibeam, what do you mean I have the wrong tittle for this sword? can you explain pls.?

Ernesto Ibeam was just joking around.

For you it was an unkown sword but to the rest of the Moro sword collectors it was a very familiar sword.

Lew

mmontoro · 18th April 2006, 06:12 PM

Hi Ernesto,

I think Ibeam may have meant that for those with an interest in Moro weapons, that piece was an outstanding example that many of us were watching. Welcome to the forum!

Manny

Lew · 18th April 2006, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibeam

I think you have the wrong Title for the thread post.

Its a WELL KNOWN SWORD!

Ibeam

Now you can clean the drool from your key board

Lew

ernesto.e · 18th April 2006, 06:16 PM

Thank you for the warm welcome my friends.

Mark · 18th April 2006, 06:58 PM

Welcome, Ernesto. I guess the answer to your question is that it is an outstanding example of its type. I am not hearing that the price went "too high," so that says something about its value I'd say.

ernesto.e · 18th April 2006, 07:21 PM

Hi Mark,

Excuse my ignorance,but are this swords/kris mass produced, I mean this particular one? if not much to ask, or any previous threads.

I hope the owner wouldnt' mind sharing a close up pictures of the handle
or does any one have similar copy to share.

Thank you,
Ernesto

Rick · 18th April 2006, 08:18 PM

Sorry nechesh ..........

Ernesto , this is an earlier kris than the one shown in the ebay auction .

No , these swords were not mass produced ; each one is an individual work of art ; no two are exactly the same and they were produced by hand in very primitive forges compared to European shops .

A forum search using the word kris will provide further information.

nechesh · 18th April 2006, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Sorry nechesh ..........

Why, i oughta.....#!!*@%#!!!

nechesh · 18th April 2006, 11:59 PM

Hey Manny, i see you had a go at it.

Ernesto, this is a beautiful example of Moro sword smithing which i'll bet any of the Moro collectors here would have loved to get his hands on. I think the price was probably about right, we just don't all have that kinda cash lying around.

panday · 19th April 2006, 02:50 AM

I welcome you Ernesto, and per your request, here are a few photos of the Datu Kris.

Andrew · 19th April 2006, 03:47 AM

Congratulations, Panday!

nechesh · 19th April 2006, 04:18 AM

Congrats indeed Panday! (drool, drool

)
One might wonder just how a sword of this quality that has obviously been taken care of manages to lose it's sheath.

panday · 19th April 2006, 04:42 AM

Nechesh, Andrew, thanks for the gratitude.
Just one lucky sword collector I guess!

nechesh · 19th April 2006, 05:27 AM

Cm'on Panday, i think money had a whole lot more to do with it than luck.

panday · 19th April 2006, 05:46 AM

Naughty! naughty! Nechesh . . .
Of couse, I was fortunate enought to have a decent job, but my family comes first, if there's ever any left overs, I save 'em for my toys, you know the routine.

MABAGANI · 19th April 2006, 07:25 AM

Awesome catch, good I've been off ebay...lolz
Thanks for sharing photos.
The blade seems older than the hilt, maybe passed through several generations.
If it used to be a warrior's the original scabbard could've been too damaged to salvage and later the blade with new hilt was kept as pusaka.
Why so many missing scabbards from swords? battlefield pick ups...remember much was taken from the dead after war

panday · 19th April 2006, 08:06 AM

Guys, any comments on this two photos?
I am refering to the 2nd pics. (the kris with out a scabbard).

MABAGANI · 19th April 2006, 10:23 AM

The dot inlays match up, so rewrap is recent.

Spunjer · 19th April 2006, 04:17 PM

hi ernest e,
going back to the original topic of the thread; yes, it is a moro kris.

...i'm sure you know that by now, lol. just wanna add my two centimos, that's all

ibeam · 19th April 2006, 04:22 PM

!!!$$%%#^#&**#*($)_ Sorry wiping off the drool from my keyboard.

Bienvenido to the Forum Ernesto,

As Manny has kindly explained, I meant that more for collectors of “MORO SWORDS”.

This particular kris is what I meant by being well known. Thank you Panday for posting the pictures.

nechesh · 19th April 2006, 04:45 PM

Yep Panday, i'd say that looks like you got a match. I suspected that the wrap was new on it since it looked too neat and clean.
Oh, and of course i know the routine, i was just removing the "luck" part as a factor. I have no doubt that you take care of the family first.

Of course, Mabagani being off ebay......hhmm.....well that might be considered lucky.

BTW Mabagani, do you think a piece like this would be a battle field pick-up? It doesn't look like the kind of kris that would see a lot of fighting.

Battara · 19th April 2006, 07:41 PM

PANDAY!!! So you're the one that beat me out of this!! (along with others

). Yes, I had been comparing this to the Cato example and I came to the conclusion this was the same puppy.

Also on the scabbard debate, I agree with Mabagani, and add another possiblility. Early on many American collectors threw away scabbards.

Not must PI/Moro, but US Civil War and other historic pieces as well.

Thus, for example, it is so much more valuable to have a scabbard on a US Civil War foot officer's or staff officer's sword.

MABAGANI · 19th April 2006, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nechesh

BTW Mabagani, do you think a piece like this would be a battle field pick-up? It doesn't look like the kind of kris that would see a lot of fighting.

I wouldn't rule out the possiblity, most the old kris are battle worthy, even the junggayan with the massive pommels, contrary to the thought that they are cerimonial. This kris in particular has some wear.

nechesh · 19th April 2006, 10:16 PM

I wasn't questioning whether or nor this blade is battle worthy as much as whether a datu who could afford silver inlay and ivory pommels would actually find himself on the battlefield with his men.

pinoy · 20th April 2006, 01:11 AM

Hi guys, another example of an inlayed kris.

Rick · 20th April 2006, 01:19 AM

What interests me about the Cato kris is the pommel material ; I wonder if it is truly elephant ivory , or is it made from a particularly large hippo tusk .
IIRC hippo tusks have the series of dark dots seen in picture #2 in the auction .

personally speaking ; I have never seen these dots in elephant ivory .

http://tinyurl.com/ko3lu

Comments ?

18th April 2006, 04:39 PM	#1
ernesto.e Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 10	Moro Datu Kris Good morning gentleman, I am Ernesto Esquivel from Mexico and I am a new member to this furom. My main fucos are Chinese weapons but I'm still new and learning. One week ago there was a sword on ebay but was not sure if its Chinese, but the price went up high. ebay #7 4 0 5 4 7 8 0 8 6, can someone tell me what this is and why it came out high. Gracias, Ernesto Last edited by ernesto.e; 18th April 2006 at 06:10 PM.

18th April 2006, 06:12 PM	#6
mmontoro Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 91	Bienvenidos Ernesto Hi Ernesto, I think Ibeam may have meant that for those with an interest in Moro weapons, that piece was an outstanding example that many of us were watching. Welcome to the forum! Manny

18th April 2006, 08:18 PM	#11
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,294	Sorry nechesh .......... Ernesto , this is an earlier kris than the one shown in the ebay auction . No , these swords were not mass produced ; each one is an individual work of art ; no two are exactly the same and they were produced by hand in very primitive forges compared to European shops . A forum search using the word kris will provide further information. Attached Images

19th April 2006, 02:50 AM	#14
panday Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 50	I welcome you Ernesto, and per your request, here are a few photos of the Datu Kris. Attached Images

19th April 2006, 08:06 AM	#21
panday Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 50	Guys, any comments on this two photos? I am refering to the 2nd pics. (the kris with out a scabbard). Attached Images

18th April 2006, 05:38 PM	#3
ibeam Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: New Jersey Posts: 134	I think you have the wrong Title for the thread post. Its a WELL KNOWN SWORD!

18th April 2006, 05:44 PM	#4
ernesto.e Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 10	Gracias, Loueblades for you information. Good morning Ibeam, what do you mean I have the wrong tittle for this sword? can you explain pls.?

18th April 2006, 06:16 PM	#8
ernesto.e Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 10	Thank you for the warm welcome my friends.

18th April 2006, 06:58 PM	#9
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	Welcome, Ernesto. I guess the answer to your question is that it is an outstanding example of its type. I am not hearing that the price went "too high," so that says something about its value I'd say.

18th April 2006, 07:21 PM	#10
ernesto.e Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 10	Hi Mark, Excuse my ignorance,but are this swords/kris mass produced, I mean this particular one? if not much to ask, or any previous threads. I hope the owner wouldnt' mind sharing a close up pictures of the handle or does any one have similar copy to share. Thank you, Ernesto

18th April 2006, 11:59 PM	#13
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Hey Manny, i see you had a go at it. Ernesto, this is a beautiful example of Moro sword smithing which i'll bet any of the Moro collectors here would have loved to get his hands on. I think the price was probably about right, we just don't all have that kinda cash lying around.

19th April 2006, 03:47 AM	#15
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Congratulations, Panday!

19th April 2006, 04:18 AM	#16
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Congrats indeed Panday! (drool, drool ) One might wonder just how a sword of this quality that has obviously been taken care of manages to lose it's sheath.

19th April 2006, 04:42 AM	#17
panday Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 50	Nechesh, Andrew, thanks for the gratitude. Just one lucky sword collector I guess!

19th April 2006, 05:27 AM	#18
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Cm'on Panday, i think money had a whole lot more to do with it than luck.

19th April 2006, 05:46 AM	#19
panday Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 50	Naughty! naughty! Nechesh . . . Of couse, I was fortunate enought to have a decent job, but my family comes first, if there's ever any left overs, I save 'em for my toys, you know the routine.

19th April 2006, 07:25 AM	#20
MABAGANI Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 221	Awesome catch, good I've been off ebay...lolz Thanks for sharing photos. The blade seems older than the hilt, maybe passed through several generations. If it used to be a warrior's the original scabbard could've been too damaged to salvage and later the blade with new hilt was kept as pusaka. Why so many missing scabbards from swords? battlefield pick ups...remember much was taken from the dead after war

19th April 2006, 10:23 AM	#22
MABAGANI Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 221	The dot inlays match up, so rewrap is recent.

19th April 2006, 04:17 PM	#23
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	hi ernest e, going back to the original topic of the thread; yes, it is a moro kris. ...i'm sure you know that by now, lol. just wanna add my two centimos, that's all

19th April 2006, 04:22 PM	#24
ibeam Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: New Jersey Posts: 134	!!!$$%%#^#&*#($)_ Sorry wiping off the drool from my keyboard. Bienvenido to the Forum Ernesto, As Manny has kindly explained, I meant that more for collectors of “MORO SWORDS”. This particular kris is what I meant by being well known. Thank you Panday for posting the pictures.

19th April 2006, 04:45 PM	#25
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Yep Panday, i'd say that looks like you got a match. I suspected that the wrap was new on it since it looked too neat and clean. Oh, and of course i know the routine, i was just removing the "luck" part as a factor. I have no doubt that you take care of the family first. Of course, Mabagani being off ebay......hhmm.....well that might be considered lucky. BTW Mabagani, do you think a piece like this would be a battle field pick-up? It doesn't look like the kind of kris that would see a lot of fighting.

19th April 2006, 07:41 PM	#26
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,229	PANDAY!!! So you're the one that beat me out of this!! (along with others ). Yes, I had been comparing this to the Cato example and I came to the conclusion this was the same puppy. Also on the scabbard debate, I agree with Mabagani, and add another possiblility. Early on many American collectors threw away scabbards. Not must PI/Moro, but US Civil War and other historic pieces as well. Thus, for example, it is so much more valuable to have a scabbard on a US Civil War foot officer's or staff officer's sword.

19th April 2006, 10:16 PM	#28
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	I wasn't questioning whether or nor this blade is battle worthy as much as whether a datu who could afford silver inlay and ivory pommels would actually find himself on the battlefield with his men.

20th April 2006, 01:11 AM	#29
pinoy Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 14	Hi guys, another example of an inlayed kris. Attached Images

20th April 2006, 01:19 AM	#30
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,294	What interests me about the Cato kris is the pommel material ; I wonder if it is truly elephant ivory , or is it made from a particularly large hippo tusk . IIRC hippo tusks have the series of dark dots seen in picture #2 in the auction . personally speaking ; I have never seen these dots in elephant ivory . http://tinyurl.com/ko3lu Comments ?