Gallery "Arms and Uniforms in Poland" (picture intensive thread)

wolviex · 22nd October 2009, 02:38 PM

Dear Friends!

First of all, welcome back

I think I should make this post few months ago, just after the opening of the exhibition I would like to advertise to you. Below I try to explain the story as short as possible, and after that you’ll find some pictures from the show. For more pictures please visit THIS SITE where you will find much more pictures.

The National Museum in Krakow (Poland) holds a huge permanent exhibition of antique military objects. In fact, this is probably the biggest such exhibition in Poland, and one of the biggest in Central Europe. Around 2000 square-metres, and over 2000 objects of high historical importance, dated from the medieval times up to the 20th century. This is, next to the Museum of Polish Army in Warsaw, the biggest collection of Polish National treasures, with many unique objects and remembrances after the most important people in the Polish (and European) history. And this is only the part of the collection, which number is about 12000 objects, but most of it is not on show.

This gallery has its long history. It exists from the 1991 but in fact it was never finished. So when years passed by it became less attractive and neglected, with the number of visits going constantly down. But there is no doubt it was really dull, despite the great objects: no historical paintings or drawings, no window curtains (so the daylight was really disturbing, reflecting from the showcases), not covered windows were always dirty, old floor, dirty walls, old and ugly cellar lamps, and many more embarrasing defects.

Around 2007 the management of the Museum started to consider a serious change of the gallery into the modern exhibition, but it was clear it won't happen before 2012, as this operation required a lot of resources. The first project was priced for the 2,000,000 USD! This was the price for the complete arrangement, repairs of the building, new showcases and much more. It was a lot of money so the Director started to consider closing the exhibition down.

But thankfully in 2008 the light in the tunnel has appeared. The meeting of the NATO countries was planned in Krakow, and the organizers of the meeting decided to give a huge banquet for the special guests in the National Museum building. It was decided that all visitors should have a possibility to see this huge exhibition. The Minister of the National Defence decided to refinance the Gallery for some changes. Considering the amount of money originally planned for the change, the donation of 120 000 $ (against 2 million) seemed to be very low. But with great effort of few museum workers, with a very short time of 3 months that has left to the "banquet deadline", the miraculous change has been done! In the first 2 months the gallery was dismantled and renovated.

This is how it looked after taking the objects down:

Then only 1 month left to arrange the whole exhibition again with all planned changes. There were people who didn’t believe it is possible – but fortunately (almost) everything was set and ready for the NATO guests.

The Gallery was opened in time, first for Ministers of Defence of the NATO countries, and one month later for the public. It quickly became one of the most popular exhibitions in the Museum (which keeps around 10 big permanent galleries and many temporary ones) with 10,000 visitors during first month (comparing to a few hundreds per month before the renovation).
The Gallery of “Arms and Uniforms” is a permanent exhibition. It means you should have a lot of time to see it (approx. around 2 years) before any major changes will be made. But with present geopolitical situation everything is possible, so to be sure you won’t miss it, go see it as soon as possible

PICTURES:

wolviex · 22nd October 2009, 02:38 PM

More pictures:

wolviex · 22nd October 2009, 02:40 PM

and more:

wolviex · 22nd October 2009, 02:40 PM

few more:

wolviex · 22nd October 2009, 02:44 PM

and some pictures from the opening the exhibition - great fun for kids as there are some places where they can (as well as adults too) try to wear or handle antique-look like objects prepared for them:

You can also see the promo-clip of the gallery from the TV and museum on youtube here

Hope you'll enjoy, much more pictures available with link posted above in first thread.

Michal

Jim McDougall · 23rd October 2009, 12:52 AM

WELCOME BACK MICHAL!!!!!!
Sure have missed you around here, and thank you so much for sharing this link and photos of these magnificent displays.
Congratulations on the superb work you have done in assembling these, and it is fantastic to see these items preserved for all to admire, and to learn from.
All best wishes for every continued success!!

Jim

wolviex · 23rd October 2009, 03:08 PM

Thank you Jim, you're always very generous.

I forgot to mention what you can see in the exhibition.
Well, amongst 2000 objects the majority is from the 17th-19th century, with smaller part on medieval times (very small, because we have archaeological museum in Krakow which is better in it), small 16th century but with few unique objects, and quite small on the 20th century.

The National Museum hold one of the best in Poland collection of hussars armament, Polish edged weapons and European firearms. It is also "a temple" for all those interested in 18-19th c. uniforms and 19th-20th c. military decorations.

In some time (I hope quite soon) on my site PolishArms.com you will find the whole guide (written by Irena Grabowska many years ago, 80 pages) for the exhibition, which was sold out and won't be printed anymore (hopefully there will be a new one). It can be still a decent source of information about antique weapons in Poland.

Regards!

celtan · 23rd October 2009, 07:23 PM

Great Job, Wolvy.

Kudos! I wish the local Phyllistines would hold History in similar high regard.

One I can always dream

Best regards

BTW, you wouldn't have any Spanish Items in your museum, would you?

M

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolviex

Thank you Jim, you're always very generous.

I forgot to mention what you can see in the exhibition.
Well, amongst 2000 objects the majority is from the 17th-19th century, with smaller part on medieval times (very small, because we have archaeological museum in Krakow which is better in it), small 16th century but with few unique objects, and quite small on the 20th century.

The National Museum hold one of the best in Poland collection of hussars armament, Polish edged weapons and European firearms. It is also "a temple" for all those interested in 18-19th c. uniforms and 19th-20th c. military decorations.

In some time (I hope quite soon) on my site PolishArms.com you will find the whole guide (written by Irena Grabowska many years ago, 80 pages) for the exhibition, which was sold out and won't be printed anymore (hopefully there will be a new one). It can be still a decent source of information about antique weapons in Poland.

Regards!

wolviex · 23rd October 2009, 07:44 PM

Thanks Celtan!
Well - there are few Spanish things, not many, not so unique, but might be interesting for some

Regards!

Matchlock · 24th October 2009, 04:01 AM

Hi Michal,

Thank you so much for taking your time and posting all this awseome stuff from the Krakau National Museum, thus making it finally accessible to the rest of the world!

Please let me comment on a few early German firearms in the Krakau National Museum in which I am highly interested in personally.

1. A South German tiller haquebut with what seems to a be a (Nuremberg?) octagonal cast copper alloy (brass or bronze) barrel, ca. 1480, of switching sections, the touch hole on the upper flat section, the heavily swamped muzzle section again remarkable for featuring a pointed upper section which simultaneously acts as a foresight.

Best wishes from Lower Bavaria,

Michael

Matchlock · 24th October 2009, 04:05 AM

2. A very rare and fine South German combined wheel and snap matchlock musket, ca. 1600-10, with a rare scroll butt and inlaid with engraved bone and mother-of-pearl. Do you happen to know (or check and maybe take images?) whether the rear section of the barrel is dated?

Matchlock · 24th October 2009, 04:11 AM

3. A highly unusual so-called all steel butt etched South German (probably Augsburg or Nuremberg) wheel lock gun, possibly combined with an additional snap matchlock, ca. 1575-80. Of course the butts and forestocks of this group of guns, pistols included, would have been way too heavy had they actually consisted of massive iron. They were made of wood, of course, and fully covered by thin copper brazed tin iron.

This gun is seen right beneath the formerly mentioned combined wheel lock and match lock scroll butt musket and - sadly - partly covered by it; so here comes the image again.

Matchlock · 24th October 2009, 04:15 AM

4. A very rare double wheel lock over and under barrel South German (Saxony?) long pistol, ca. 1595-1610.

Matchlock · 24th October 2009, 04:18 AM

5. A fine wheel lock long pistol, most probably made for a guardsman of the Electors of Saxony, ca. 1610.

Matchlock · 24th October 2009, 04:20 AM

6. Another fine and long wheel lock pistol presumably Saxony, ca. 1615-20, the trigger guard now missing.

Dear Michal, if you think it is possible to get better and more detailed photos of these guns, including copies of what the inventory has on them, please let me know. Any help would me much appreciated and all costs would, of course, be made up for.

Best wishes from Lower Bavaria,
Michael

Matchlock · 24th October 2009, 04:29 AM

The characteristic thickly roped (writhen) iron edges are found on late Maximilian and later suits of armor of the first half of the 16th century.

Michael

Matchlock · 24th October 2009, 04:42 AM

I almost overlooked this, it is displayed at the bottom of this showcase.

Of this item, too, photos and additional information would be very, very welcome!

Matchlock · 24th October 2009, 05:36 AM

There are quite some similar specimens of this type of Hunting Volley Rifles known, most of them still mounted on their original painted two wheel carriages.

The one from the Krakau National Museum that Michal kindly posted here

(first image below) is one of the very few fired by means of a wheel lock mechanism while most surviving samples, their number of rifled barrels ranging from 7-9, use the more advanced but still contemporary flintlock.

The bunch of barrels of some of the flintlock specimen are signed by their maker, Valtin (sic! for Valentin) Muth à Zerbst, East Germany. One signed seven barrel example, the back sight missing, was sold from the Franconian armory of the Counts Schenk von Stauffenberg, Sotheby's, July 10, 2002 (see scans below).

Best,
Michael

wolviex · 24th October 2009, 11:35 AM

Thank you Matchlock for your input!

To be honest

it's too many questions to answer them at once! Well, I'm rather edged weapons guy, so I need to look at some papers at work to answer you, so please be patiente, I'll get back to you on Monday (hopefully).

Though - it would be much easier if you could pack yourself and buy a ticket for a few days to Krakow/Krakau to see it on your own eyes and to talk with guns curator in person

. Judging from your posts you could have a great time here in the museum.

And just to make you satisfy for the weekend few more pictures of one of the pistols you liked so much

Matchlock · 24th October 2009, 08:25 PM

Dear Michal,

Thanks a whole lot for your prompt reply and the additional images!

I have indeed pondered over going to the museums in Poland, Czechia and Russia but my spine is really too bad at the moment.

So I think I would greatly benefit from a little help from you when your time allows you to. Just in case you care to see what interests me most about early firearms, please go to

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/search.php?searchid=29633

and judge for yourself.

Have a nice weekend.

Best wishes,
Michael

Jens Nordlunde · 25th October 2009, 06:38 PM

Hello Michal,

It is very impressive what you and you staff has done, and I send all my best wishes for you and your department.

Although I collect Indian weapons I do appreciate the weapons you show, they are fantastic masterpieces.

Jens

wolviex · 26th October 2009, 07:28 PM

Dear Matchlock.
I checked few things and what can I say that you are very accurate in your judgement of guns!
Anyway you have PM. I couldn't check everything but it will be a good start I believe, and I didn't post it here to not make a huge discussion about guns in this topic dedicated to exhibition, though other post can be created if you wish

and Jens! Thank you for your kind words and email!

Best regards!

Zwielicht · 2nd January 2010, 10:56 PM

The pistol from post #19 is amazing... what years it can be dated as (as for me, at first glance I would suppose middle or second half of 16th century)? And what are it's dimensions (especially length and weight

)?

UPD. Sorry, I saw the dating. But the question about the dimensions is still actual.

wolviex · 3rd January 2010, 11:08 AM

Hi!
All I can tell at the moment is lenght which is 52 cm and calibre: 12 mm. I have no data about the weight at the moment.

Regards!

Zwielicht · 3rd January 2010, 09:08 PM

wolviex,

Thank you! By the way, do you know anything about the existense of breech-loading double-barrel weapons of 16th - early 17th century?

wolviex · 4th January 2010, 10:54 AM

As far as I know there were breech loading guns already in the 17th c. But while I'm not very knowledgeable in firearms I can be wrong writing anything. I think Matchlock is the one who should speak out about it

regards!

24th October 2009, 04:01 AM	#10
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	A Tiller Haquebut, ca. 1480 Hi Michal, Thank you so much for taking your time and posting all this awseome stuff from the Krakau National Museum, thus making it finally accessible to the rest of the world! Please let me comment on a few early German firearms in the Krakau National Museum in which I am highly interested in personally. 1. A South German tiller haquebut with what seems to a be a (Nuremberg?) octagonal cast copper alloy (brass or bronze) barrel, ca. 1480, of switching sections, the touch hole on the upper flat section, the heavily swamped muzzle section again remarkable for featuring a pointed upper section which simultaneously acts as a foresight. Best wishes from Lower Bavaria, Michael Attached Images

24th October 2009, 04:05 AM	#11
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	A Scroll Butt Combined Wheel And Snap Matchlock Musket, ca. 1600-10 2. A very rare and fine South German combined wheel and snap matchlock musket, ca. 1600-10, with a rare scroll butt and inlaid with engraved bone and mother-of-pearl. Do you happen to know (or check and maybe take images?) whether the rear section of the barrel is dated? Attached Images

24th October 2009, 04:11 AM	#12
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	A So-Called All Steel Butt Etched Wheel Lock Gun, ca. 1575-80 3. A highly unusual so-called all steel butt etched South German (probably Augsburg or Nuremberg) wheel lock gun, possibly combined with an additional snap matchlock, ca. 1575-80. Of course the butts and forestocks of this group of guns, pistols included, would have been way too heavy had they actually consisted of massive iron. They were made of wood, of course, and fully covered by thin copper brazed tin iron. This gun is seen right beneath the formerly mentioned combined wheel lock and match lock scroll butt musket and - sadly - partly covered by it; so here comes the image again. Attached Images

24th October 2009, 04:15 AM	#13
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	A Saxon? Double Wheel Lock Over And Under Barrel Pistol, ca. 1595-10 4. A very rare double wheel lock over and under barrel South German (Saxony?) long pistol, ca. 1595-1610. Attached Images

24th October 2009, 04:18 AM	#14
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	A Saxon? Wheel Lock Pistol, ca. 1610 5. A fine wheel lock long pistol, most probably made for a guardsman of the Electors of Saxony, ca. 1610. Attached Images

22nd October 2009, 02:38 PM	#1
wolviex Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poland, Krakow Posts: 418	Gallery "Arms and Uniforms in Poland" (picture intensive thread) Dear Friends! First of all, welcome back I think I should make this post few months ago, just after the opening of the exhibition I would like to advertise to you. Below I try to explain the story as short as possible, and after that you’ll find some pictures from the show. For more pictures please visit THIS SITE where you will find much more pictures. The National Museum in Krakow (Poland) holds a huge permanent exhibition of antique military objects. In fact, this is probably the biggest such exhibition in Poland, and one of the biggest in Central Europe. Around 2000 square-metres, and over 2000 objects of high historical importance, dated from the medieval times up to the 20th century. This is, next to the Museum of Polish Army in Warsaw, the biggest collection of Polish National treasures, with many unique objects and remembrances after the most important people in the Polish (and European) history. And this is only the part of the collection, which number is about 12000 objects, but most of it is not on show. This gallery has its long history. It exists from the 1991 but in fact it was never finished. So when years passed by it became less attractive and neglected, with the number of visits going constantly down. But there is no doubt it was really dull, despite the great objects: no historical paintings or drawings, no window curtains (so the daylight was really disturbing, reflecting from the showcases), not covered windows were always dirty, old floor, dirty walls, old and ugly cellar lamps, and many more embarrasing defects. Around 2007 the management of the Museum started to consider a serious change of the gallery into the modern exhibition, but it was clear it won't happen before 2012, as this operation required a lot of resources. The first project was priced for the 2,000,000 USD! This was the price for the complete arrangement, repairs of the building, new showcases and much more. It was a lot of money so the Director started to consider closing the exhibition down. But thankfully in 2008 the light in the tunnel has appeared. The meeting of the NATO countries was planned in Krakow, and the organizers of the meeting decided to give a huge banquet for the special guests in the National Museum building. It was decided that all visitors should have a possibility to see this huge exhibition. The Minister of the National Defence decided to refinance the Gallery for some changes. Considering the amount of money originally planned for the change, the donation of 120 000 $ (against 2 million) seemed to be very low. But with great effort of few museum workers, with a very short time of 3 months that has left to the "banquet deadline", the miraculous change has been done! In the first 2 months the gallery was dismantled and renovated. This is how it looked after taking the objects down: Then only 1 month left to arrange the whole exhibition again with all planned changes. There were people who didn’t believe it is possible – but fortunately (almost) everything was set and ready for the NATO guests. The Gallery was opened in time, first for Ministers of Defence of the NATO countries, and one month later for the public. It quickly became one of the most popular exhibitions in the Museum (which keeps around 10 big permanent galleries and many temporary ones) with 10,000 visitors during first month (comparing to a few hundreds per month before the renovation). The Gallery of “Arms and Uniforms” is a permanent exhibition. It means you should have a lot of time to see it (approx. around 2 years) before any major changes will be made. But with present geopolitical situation everything is possible, so to be sure you won’t miss it, go see it as soon as possible PICTURES:

22nd October 2009, 02:40 PM	#3
wolviex Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poland, Krakow Posts: 418	and more:

22nd October 2009, 02:44 PM	#5
wolviex Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poland, Krakow Posts: 418	and some pictures from the opening the exhibition - great fun for kids as there are some places where they can (as well as adults too) try to wear or handle antique-look like objects prepared for them: You can also see the promo-clip of the gallery from the TV and museum on youtube here Hope you'll enjoy, much more pictures available with link posted above in first thread. Michal

23rd October 2009, 12:52 AM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,948	WELCOME BACK MICHAL!!!!!! Sure have missed you around here, and thank you so much for sharing this link and photos of these magnificent displays. Congratulations on the superb work you have done in assembling these, and it is fantastic to see these items preserved for all to admire, and to learn from. All best wishes for every continued success!! Jim

23rd October 2009, 03:08 PM	#7
wolviex Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poland, Krakow Posts: 418	Thank you Jim, you're always very generous. I forgot to mention what you can see in the exhibition. Well, amongst 2000 objects the majority is from the 17th-19th century, with smaller part on medieval times (very small, because we have archaeological museum in Krakow which is better in it), small 16th century but with few unique objects, and quite small on the 20th century. The National Museum hold one of the best in Poland collection of hussars armament, Polish edged weapons and European firearms. It is also "a temple" for all those interested in 18-19th c. uniforms and 19th-20th c. military decorations. In some time (I hope quite soon) on my site PolishArms.com you will find the whole guide (written by Irena Grabowska many years ago, 80 pages) for the exhibition, which was sold out and won't be printed anymore (hopefully there will be a new one). It can be still a decent source of information about antique weapons in Poland. Regards!

23rd October 2009, 07:44 PM	#9
wolviex Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poland, Krakow Posts: 418	Thanks Celtan! Well - there are few Spanish things, not many, not so unique, but might be interesting for some Regards!

24th October 2009, 04:20 AM	#15
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	A Fine Saxon? Wheel Lock Long Pistol, ca. 1615-20 6. Another fine and long wheel lock pistol presumably Saxony, ca. 1615-20, the trigger guard now missing. Dear Michal, if you think it is possible to get better and more detailed photos of these guns, including copies of what the inventory has on them, please let me know. Any help would me much appreciated and all costs would, of course, be made up for. Best wishes from Lower Bavaria, Michael Attached Images

24th October 2009, 04:29 AM	#16
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	A Very Rare Jousting Saddle, ca. 1525-50 The characteristic thickly roped (writhen) iron edges are found on late Maximilian and later suits of armor of the first half of the 16th century. Michael Attached Images

24th October 2009, 04:42 AM	#17
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	An 18th Century Flintlock Gun Mounted With a Fine ca. 1530 Italian Arqebus Barrel I almost overlooked this, it is displayed at the bottom of this showcase. Of this item, too, photos and additional information would be very, very welcome! Attached Images

24th October 2009, 05:36 AM	#18
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	A Very Unusual 9 Barrel Volley Hunting Rifle (!), East German, Zerbst?, ca. 1670-80 There are quite some similar specimens of this type of Hunting Volley Rifles known, most of them still mounted on their original painted two wheel carriages. The one from the Krakau National Museum that Michal kindly posted here (first image below) is one of the very few fired by means of a wheel lock mechanism while most surviving samples, their number of rifled barrels ranging from 7-9, use the more advanced but still contemporary flintlock. The bunch of barrels of some of the flintlock specimen are signed by their maker, Valtin (sic! for Valentin) Muth à Zerbst, East Germany. One signed seven barrel example, the back sight missing, was sold from the Franconian armory of the Counts Schenk von Stauffenberg, Sotheby's, July 10, 2002 (see scans below). Best, Michael Attached Images Last edited by Matchlock; 24th October 2009 at 08:08 PM.

24th October 2009, 11:35 AM	#19
wolviex Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poland, Krakow Posts: 418	Thank you Matchlock for your input! To be honest it's too many questions to answer them at once! Well, I'm rather edged weapons guy, so I need to look at some papers at work to answer you, so please be patiente, I'll get back to you on Monday (hopefully). Though - it would be much easier if you could pack yourself and buy a ticket for a few days to Krakow/Krakau to see it on your own eyes and to talk with guns curator in person . Judging from your posts you could have a great time here in the museum. And just to make you satisfy for the weekend few more pictures of one of the pistols you liked so much Attached Images

24th October 2009, 08:25 PM	#20
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Dear Michal, Thanks a whole lot for your prompt reply and the additional images! I have indeed pondered over going to the museums in Poland, Czechia and Russia but my spine is really too bad at the moment. So I think I would greatly benefit from a little help from you when your time allows you to. Just in case you care to see what interests me most about early firearms, please go to http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/search.php?searchid=29633 and judge for yourself. Have a nice weekend. Best wishes, Michael

25th October 2009, 06:38 PM	#21
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hello Michal, It is very impressive what you and you staff has done, and I send all my best wishes for you and your department. Although I collect Indian weapons I do appreciate the weapons you show, they are fantastic masterpieces. Jens

26th October 2009, 07:28 PM	#22
wolviex Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poland, Krakow Posts: 418	Dear Matchlock. I checked few things and what can I say that you are very accurate in your judgement of guns! Anyway you have PM. I couldn't check everything but it will be a good start I believe, and I didn't post it here to not make a huge discussion about guns in this topic dedicated to exhibition, though other post can be created if you wish and Jens! Thank you for your kind words and email! Best regards!

2nd January 2010, 10:56 PM	#23
Zwielicht Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 26	The pistol from post #19 is amazing... what years it can be dated as (as for me, at first glance I would suppose middle or second half of 16th century)? And what are it's dimensions (especially length and weight )? UPD. Sorry, I saw the dating. But the question about the dimensions is still actual.

3rd January 2010, 11:08 AM	#24
wolviex Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poland, Krakow Posts: 418	Hi! All I can tell at the moment is lenght which is 52 cm and calibre: 12 mm. I have no data about the weight at the moment. Regards!

3rd January 2010, 09:08 PM	#25
Zwielicht Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 26	wolviex, Thank you! By the way, do you know anything about the existense of breech-loading double-barrel weapons of 16th - early 17th century?

4th January 2010, 10:54 AM	#26
wolviex Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poland, Krakow Posts: 418	As far as I know there were breech loading guns already in the 17th c. But while I'm not very knowledgeable in firearms I can be wrong writing anything. I think Matchlock is the one who should speak out about it regards!