Afghan Pulourar Sabre/Scabbard Upgrade

rickystl · 23rd May 2020, 04:42 PM

It's hard to believe that seven years have passed by already since I first posted this sabre here on the Forum. Here is the Link to my original Thread for background:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=17016

Recently I had the sabre out looking and twirling it around and noticed the blade had become just a tad loose from the hilt. Nothing real noticeable, but loose none the less. It's just one of those things that buggs some of us. LOL
So I sent the sabre and scabbard to fellow Forum member and restorer Philip Tom to tighten the grip. Which he accomplished admirably.

But I'm sure glad I sent the scabbard along too. I knew the thin, black velvet material covering the scabbard was a later addition. But it turned out it was a MUCH later addition. And quite flimsy. So Philip offered to recover the scabbard with some grained Moroccan leather he had on hand. Of course I quickly agreed. With the black velvet material being such a late addition I had nothing to loose. While removing the velvet it was found to have a backyard type repair to the wood using some type of news/magazine paper wrapped around - that still showed advertising. LOL Hilarious !!! Also, the chape was fitted about 1-1 1/2" longer than necessary. So the wood scabbard was properly repaired and the chape moved inward a bit offering a more balanced look. The sling rings were loose, so Philip shimmed them nice and snug.
I received the sabre back last Monday. At first view I couldn't believe my eyes. WOW!!! Philip gave the leather covering an antique finish, with little scuffs here and there. You would almost swear the leather was original to the scabbard. Even smells like old leather. LOL The scabbard is and looks so much better. I could not be happier with the results. THANK YOU PHILIP !! Pictures just don't seem to do justice to the leather covering. But here are some anyway....

I thought I saved the two pics of the paper wrapped wood that Philip sent me, but can't seem to locate them. Hopefully Philip will chime in and has the two pics he sent me. It's so funny.

Thanks again Philip for such a masterful job.

Rick

rickystl · 23rd May 2020, 04:43 PM

THREE MORE PICS......

kahnjar1 · 23rd May 2020, 09:52 PM

Great job on that scabbard IMHO. The aging looks wonderful.
Stu

Kubur · 24th May 2020, 08:33 AM

Yes, it's a top quality work.

Ian · 24th May 2020, 09:47 AM

Yes, Philip does some excellent work. I'm hoping he will tell us more about the leather and where it came from. I suspect it is quite old and is recycled from something unrelated to weapons.

mariusgmioc · 24th May 2020, 11:47 AM

Hello Rick,

I opened your message, just looked at the pictures and thought: what a beautiful Afghan pulowar complete with original scabbard...

Then I read your comment and realised that to my surprise, the scabbard was restored...

But wow, it is so well done that I wouldn't have guessed in a thousand years it was restored.

Philip is a real artist!

Sajen · 24th May 2020, 01:44 PM

Very good job!

rickystl · 24th May 2020, 10:19 PM

I found the two pics. After the thin velvet material was removed, here is what was wrapped around a portion of the wood......LOL

Rick

kahnjar1 · 24th May 2020, 10:36 PM

Hi Rick,
Don't know if you investigated those labels.....here is a link to Indore https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indore
and to Ballantines Ale https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P._Bal...rewing_Company
Stu

Philip · 25th May 2020, 12:16 AM

Wow, so we are able to put a place and hopefully a range of dates on the labels. Am glad I took those pics before I installed the leather. And that Ricky saved them when I attached them to an email, I no longer have them in my iPhone's photo file!

Philip · 25th May 2020, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

Yes, Philip does some excellent work. I'm hoping he will tell us more about the leather and where it came from. I suspect it is quite old and is recycled from something unrelated to weapons.

Thanks, Ian. I like to use salvaged antique material whenever possible ,but often, it is not dimensionally compatible with the project (especially when applied to a curved slender object with a considerable expanse of material required between fittings. There are other issues as well -- fragility, and old crease lines on the salvaged stock that would be incongruous on the thing to be re-covered.

I used to e able to get some wonderful morocco-grained goat leather that was an excellent match for old shagreen as re texture, and it came in black and dark green which was perfect for virtually all Near Eastern and Chinese scabbard jobs. But the importer quit handling it. On this pulouar, I had some similar stuff that I got from a supplier that provides materials for restorers of vintage and antique cameras and optical equipment -- binocs, spyglasses, and their cases. It's thin and the surface is hard to the touch, like the originals. The downside is that it has virtually no "stretch" to it, unlike the goat I used to use previously, so forming it around a curved sheat can be tricky if you want to avoid wrinkles. But I have ways to address that and it "distresses" very well for a nice antique effect.

shayde78 · 25th May 2020, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philip

Thanks, Ian. I like to use salvaged antique material whenever possible ,but often, it is not dimensionally compatible with the project (especially when applied to a curved slender object with a considerable expanse of material required between fittings. There are other issues as well -- fragility, and old crease lines on the salvaged stock that would be incongruous on the thing to be re-covered.

I used to e able to get some wonderful morocco-grained goat leather that was an excellent match for old shagreen as re texture, and it came in black and dark green which was perfect for virtually all Near Eastern and Chinese scabbard jobs. But the importer quit handling it. On this pulouar, I had some similar stuff that I got from a supplier that provides materials for restorers of vintage and antique cameras and optical equipment -- binocs, spyglasses, and their cases. It's thin and the surface is hard to the touch, like the originals. The downside is that it has virtually no "stretch" to it, unlike the goat I used to use previously, so forming it around a curved sheat can be tricky if you want to avoid wrinkles. But I have ways to address that and it "distresses" very well for a nice antique effect.

Truly a masterful job!

Kubur · 25th May 2020, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philip

Wow, so we are able to put a place and hopefully a range of dates on the labels. Am glad I took those pics before I installed the leather. And that Ricky saved them when I attached them to an email, I no longer have them in my iPhone's photo file!

I found some nice Japanese papers wrapped around the tang of a wakizashi, these little finds are so interesting.

Rick, you have also a label of US Ballantine beer!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P._Bal...rewing_Company

Papers travel fast and Indian or US labels don't mean a lot, unless you have some dates on them.

Kubur · 25th May 2020, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

I found some nice Japanese papers wrapped around the tang of a wakizashi, these little finds are so interesting.

Rick, you have also a label of US Ballantine beer!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P._Bal...rewing_Company

Papers travel fast and Indian or US labels don't mean a lot, unless you have some dates on them.

I can see that Stu updated his post accordingly to my comments, funny!

kahnjar1 · 25th May 2020, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

I can see that Stu updated his post accordingly to my comments, funny!

Sorry Kubur, I was still working on the Ballantine thing. You will note my update was 1 hour before your post......

Kubur · 25th May 2020, 10:03 AM

Really?

For me, the forum is just a passion that I share with other forum members and not a competition of any kind.
My time is GMT +1 and forum entry is GMT, thanks Ed.
Just sad, but people on the forum are like people in the real life!

Edster · 25th May 2020, 03:14 PM

Apparently, Ballantine brand was sold in 1972, so that may place a time context on the earlier paper wrap.

Also, I think the time stamp on forum entries is GMT, not local time on the entrant, just saying.

Regards,
Ed

rickystl · 25th May 2020, 03:54 PM

Hi Stu: Thanks so much for the Links. Never thought of investigating the labels. Indore and the Brewing Company. Very interesting. Sure glad I found those pics. LOL It would appear the the first repair may have been done in the latter 20th Century, as was originally suspected.

Hi Kubur: Yes, these little tidbits can be an interesting surprise when not expected. I have a Japanese matchlock, that while removing the barrel found this tiny piece of old cloth lying loose between the barrel and stock. A real surprise. Maybe an inspector's mark (?)

Philip: Thanks for adding your comments. And thank again for such a superb job. Much appreciated.

Rick

23rd May 2020, 04:42 PM	#1
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	Afghan Pulourar Sabre/Scabbard Upgrade It's hard to believe that seven years have passed by already since I first posted this sabre here on the Forum. Here is the Link to my original Thread for background: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=17016 Recently I had the sabre out looking and twirling it around and noticed the blade had become just a tad loose from the hilt. Nothing real noticeable, but loose none the less. It's just one of those things that buggs some of us. LOL So I sent the sabre and scabbard to fellow Forum member and restorer Philip Tom to tighten the grip. Which he accomplished admirably. But I'm sure glad I sent the scabbard along too. I knew the thin, black velvet material covering the scabbard was a later addition. But it turned out it was a MUCH later addition. And quite flimsy. So Philip offered to recover the scabbard with some grained Moroccan leather he had on hand. Of course I quickly agreed. With the black velvet material being such a late addition I had nothing to loose. While removing the velvet it was found to have a backyard type repair to the wood using some type of news/magazine paper wrapped around - that still showed advertising. LOL Hilarious !!! Also, the chape was fitted about 1-1 1/2" longer than necessary. So the wood scabbard was properly repaired and the chape moved inward a bit offering a more balanced look. The sling rings were loose, so Philip shimmed them nice and snug. I received the sabre back last Monday. At first view I couldn't believe my eyes. WOW!!! Philip gave the leather covering an antique finish, with little scuffs here and there. You would almost swear the leather was original to the scabbard. Even smells like old leather. LOL The scabbard is and looks so much better. I could not be happier with the results. THANK YOU PHILIP !! Pictures just don't seem to do justice to the leather covering. But here are some anyway.... I thought I saved the two pics of the paper wrapped wood that Philip sent me, but can't seem to locate them. Hopefully Philip will chime in and has the two pics he sent me. It's so funny. Thanks again Philip for such a masterful job. Rick Attached Images

23rd May 2020, 04:43 PM	#2
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	THREE MORE PICS...... Attached Images

24th May 2020, 10:19 PM	#8
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	I found the two pics. After the thin velvet material was removed, here is what was wrapped around a portion of the wood......LOL Rick Attached Images

24th May 2020, 10:36 PM	#9
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,739	Hi Rick, Don't know if you investigated those labels.....here is a link to Indore https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indore and to Ballantines Ale https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P._Bal...rewing_Company Stu Last edited by kahnjar1; 25th May 2020 at 07:01 AM.

25th May 2020, 12:16 AM	#10
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	old labels Wow, so we are able to put a place and hopefully a range of dates on the labels. Am glad I took those pics before I installed the leather. And that Ricky saved them when I attached them to an email, I no longer have them in my iPhone's photo file!

23rd May 2020, 09:52 PM	#3
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,739	Great job on that scabbard IMHO. The aging looks wonderful. Stu

24th May 2020, 08:33 AM	#4
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Yes, it's a top quality work.

24th May 2020, 09:47 AM	#5
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,197	Yes, Philip does some excellent work. I'm hoping he will tell us more about the leather and where it came from. I suspect it is quite old and is recycled from something unrelated to weapons.

24th May 2020, 11:47 AM	#6
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,903	Hello Rick, I opened your message, just looked at the pictures and thought: what a beautiful Afghan pulowar complete with original scabbard... Then I read your comment and realised that to my surprise, the scabbard was restored... But wow, it is so well done that I wouldn't have guessed in a thousand years it was restored. Philip is a real artist!

24th May 2020, 01:44 PM	#7
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,769	Very good job!

25th May 2020, 10:03 AM	#16
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Really? For me, the forum is just a passion that I share with other forum members and not a competition of any kind. My time is GMT +1 and forum entry is GMT, thanks Ed. Just sad, but people on the forum are like people in the real life! Last edited by Kubur; 25th May 2020 at 04:04 PM.

25th May 2020, 03:14 PM	#17
Edster Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 408	Apparently, Ballantine brand was sold in 1972, so that may place a time context on the earlier paper wrap. Also, I think the time stamp on forum entries is GMT, not local time on the entrant, just saying. Regards, Ed

25th May 2020, 03:54 PM	#18
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	Hi Stu: Thanks so much for the Links. Never thought of investigating the labels. Indore and the Brewing Company. Very interesting. Sure glad I found those pics. LOL It would appear the the first repair may have been done in the latter 20th Century, as was originally suspected. Hi Kubur: Yes, these little tidbits can be an interesting surprise when not expected. I have a Japanese matchlock, that while removing the barrel found this tiny piece of old cloth lying loose between the barrel and stock. A real surprise. Maybe an inspector's mark (?) Philip: Thanks for adding your comments. And thank again for such a superb job. Much appreciated. Rick Attached Images