South African throwing spear

[Tim Simmons]

I just thought this is quite nice.I like the way the haft maker has carved a swollen end to balance the spear.To me these spears are more like big darts.The blade seems rather a little large for hunting, a volley of these, if not killing you, hanging out of a limb or somewhere else in a body would reduce an enemies fighting ability.Tim

[tom hyle]

Nice barbed longneck javelin; blade could pass for early CE European. How can a spear be too big for hunting in Africa? I think the longnecked spears, often creditted for their powers against sheilds, also have a similar ability to penetrate deeply into a big animal.

[fearn]

I agree with Tom. Check out the Cold Steel samburu, since they've actually tested it successfully in hunting situations, and it certainly is a long-shank spear.

Otherwise, it's a nice weapon, aside from the warped shaft. One thing we don't talk about much on this board is that long spear shafts can get warped from leaning in a corner. It's too bad, because I think in some cases, there's the impression that the work was sloppy, when in fact, it's sloppy curatorial practices in the past history of the weapons.

Note that this isn't a criticism of you, Tim! It's a side issue, but one that's shown up on a number of the older spears shown here. Seeing something meant to fly straight that no longer can is in the same league as seeing a sword with a wonderful blade and a trashed handle. They are certainly worth saving and collecting, but there is something a little sad about the loss of function, at least to me.

Fearn

[Tim Simmons]

Hi Fearn, It is very sad to see these things that were so carefully made warped but having said that, I am not sure they were all made as straight as you or I would imagine.The spears in these pictures suggest that straightness might not have been of major importance.Tim

[tom hyle]

Straightness is of great importance in a spear shaft, for throwing especially, but it is also not always easy to achieve. In areas lacking forests of large straight trees whose riven straightgrain heartwood can be used, it seems that sapplings and roots are often used. The bends in these can be somewhat straightened by steaming, and lesser ones that even back out over distance are not as bad, but still tend to wobble the spear in flight. In Europe tool handles are/were traditionally made from "copiced" wood that had been grown to shape. Both knobkerries and shillelaghs are said to be bioengeneered in a way, by producing the knob by winding a (iron) band around the growing root and reburying it. Nevertheless, wiggly spear handles are seen a lot, and I think it is in areas where there are not forests of large trees and/or there is not a tradition of settled longterm agriculture and bioengineering (or whatever you prefer....) of plants?????? I saw an ancient (Assyrian?) chariot reconstructed on TV. They were in the Middle East in whatever appropriate country to the original culture (I don't remember those details though), and they got it made by guys who....hmmmm....I forget what their usual product is, too, but the point is they used bendy wood from small trees, and they straightened it/bent it to shape on frames (reminiscent of Japanese bow makers' clamp frames) after steaming it inside of long tubes.
I read a book on American Indian archery, and the author said much of the talk about poor Indian bows was based on collected examples that had not recieved proper care and had warped and/or dried out.
Leaning and the pull of gravity can have affect over time, but in truth I think the warpage we see here may be more due to moisture exchange with the air. Wood warps with time, especially narrow pieces.....I've seen sheaths with their sides bowed apart a half inch or more, for instance......
In another matter, this does look like a javelin (?) but I generally think of the counterweight/retrieval pommel as a thrusing spear feature? It's worth noting that the division is not neccessarily sharp. Short/one-handed thrusting spears are often/usually used with the blade coming out the bottom of the hand, as if for throwing, and from reinactments and rituals I've seen I'd think that short throws, often for less than the length of the shaft, so it doesn't really leave your hand and you just clamp down and pull it back (this is where pommel for retreival/to keep the spear from shooting out too far or otherwise pulled from you comes in), were often an integral part of technique with short thrusting spears; the division between thrusting spear and javelin does not seem to me to always be a sharp one.....?.....

[Tim Simmons]

Hello Tom, good point about shrub size sources of wood.I think it would be safe to asume this is a javelin/dart,it is only about 1.5m long and the haft is thick as my little finger.Although it does have a curve it feels very comfortable and well balanced in the hand.I shall try and get a picture of this latter this evening.Tim

[Freddy]

True, some spear become warped because they are kept upright, standing in a corner. I usually 'hang' my spears, point up. You only need a nail and some rope. This prevents them from bending.

Some Central African spears indeed have bend shafts. I think it all depends on the use of the spear. Ceremonial spears will have thicker, carved shafts. The same can be said about the thrusting spears. Strength is a big issue there. What would a warrior be with a spear that breaks in two when he thrusts at an opponent ?
But for hunting, a simple stick/shaft is enough. I don't think an animal will be killed on the spot when hit by a spear. Most of the time it runs off and is tracked by the hunters until it is too weak and can be finished off. When the spear blade is stuck into its back, the shaft is often lost or broken. Why then bother with a nicely straighened or carved shaft ?

Here are some examples of harpoon and/or throwing spears in the collection of the Frankfurt Museum für Völkerkunde (etnological museum) in Germany. The drawings come from a book published in 1985 and are of examples in the Museum's collection.







The last drawing also shows a Mongo spear.

Look at the way these shafts 'twist'.

[Tim Simmons]

For some reason my hair has not appeared in this photo, strange

[fearn]

Dunno, Tim--you can join me in the aerodynamically sleek male category, I think

So far as the bent staves go--yes, I agree with those of you who talked about the problem of finding a straight sapling. I'd further point out that, if you go to the local lumber yard and try their dowels, you'll find that most of them aren't straight either, although they're fairly close.

Even more, I've had a 6' walnut walking stick for over 20 years now. It's probably a wonderful weapon (probably in that I've never had to fight with it), it's light, strong, and stabs and strikes quite accurately. It's also got a pronounced bend in the middle. I would not want to throw it, but it's a great (potential) hand weapon.

HOWEVER (you knew this was coming), there still is the conservation issue. I think one sees it far more with arrows than with spears, but some weapons get well and truly warped when kept in a museum collection for 50-100 years, just as swords can become rusty and mildewed. Photos of museum specimens can be extremely deceptive that way, because they don't stop time--they just image the way something looked in the collection at a particular point.

This is a case of "bad becoming normal" as Temple Grandin put it in another context. As specimens decay over time, we get used to them looking ratty, until we start wondering how people could ever have fought with such poorly built and badly-designed weapons... you all know that particular story, I think.

I've primarily heard complaints about warping from Native Americans and those who enjoy NA archery--they say that the arrows in museum displays are often badly distorted. I suspect we see some of that here as well with spears and other pole arms. In conserving our collected weapons, I'd simply suggest that we might want to pay attention to is keeping the staves as straight as we got them, rather than leaning them in a closet for 20-30 years.

Fearn

[Rick]

I store/display my spears horizontally on cafe curtain rod brackets . This method gives me the opportunity to rotate them and so far they've stayed fairly straight .

/keeping fingers crossed

[Tim Simmons]

Well we got some debate.I will agree with the need to hang spears verticaly or as Rick does.I use a little nylon fishing line around the base of the blade and hang them on a picture hook.Thanks for the input.Tim

[tom hyle]

Originally Posted by Freddy

Here are some examples of harpoon and/or throwing spears in the collection of the Frankfurt Museum für Völkerkunde (etnological museum) in Germany. The drawings come from a book published in 1985 and are of examples in the Museum's collection.







The last drawing also shows a Mongo spear.

Look at the way these shafts 'twist'.

Actually all but that last one are fairly straight, and may well have been straighter in their using days. I don't think I have ever seen an old African spear handle as wiggly as that one, and would suggest it was not for serious violent use (I would suggest it is a junk shaft put on the blade to sell it to a foreigner, actually, but it could have some other meaning; religious symbolism leaps to mind.). It would really mess with the accuracy and penetration of a throw. Yes, many old spear shafts have a minor bend or two (though the better ones almost all seem to me to have been arrow-straight, so to speak, when new, and I think it is only in treeless or nearly treeless areas that you see the really subpar wood used. It is my understanding that the Mongo do not live in such an area?), but nothing like this.

[Tim Simmons]

Once more into the breach!Tim

[Rick]

The two 9' spears that are the straightest in my collection are hafted with palma brava . They are ex harold Bandholtz Collection and I have no idea how they were stored before they came into my hands . I attribute their straightness to the material used for the hafts .

[fearn]

Hi Tim,

Neat photo. Are those lances (i.e. long stabbing spears), or throwing spears?

The need for straightness applies in two places, really. One is where something is meant to be thrown. It's entirely possible to throw a twisty spear some distance, but if accuracy and deep penetration are the goals, twistiness is a problem.

The other is where you're jabbing with a spear--one hand guides, one hand pushes, as if the spear were a pool cue. In these cases, the spear shaft has to be very smooth and straight in order for the stab to work. Note that you can use any twisty old spear with a two handing stroke (both hands pushing), but I'm not sure that's as accurate.

What I'm saying, basically, is that the functionality of spears is limited by the shape of the shaft. To be fully functional, a spear shaft has to be straight and smooth. If it's twisty or decorated (i.e. not smooth or straight) it's still quite useful, but in a more limited way.

Fearn

[Tim Simmons]

Hello fellows, Rick, those spears sound too good to not show us.I know it is not easy taking pictures of such long things but we simply must see them!My Malay spear is really straight and smooth.

Fearn, yes spears and arrows should be straight anywhere else in the world ,but when it comes to Africa things go a little strange and not allways to rule.I do not know if we can take this thread any further, thanks for all the replies.Tim

[Rick]

These are mounted over windows and slider doors . The full length pictures will give an idea on haft condition . There is also a picture of the heads of the Mandaya spears , both about 9' oa . Also is included a picture of one of the iron shoes with which both Mandayas are shod .
The two spears pictured together are Moro and much shorter ; around 6' .

[Tim Simmons]

Thank you Rick, very good of you to respond so guickly.They are wonderful and I should imagine they are among your prize pieces.It is quite an achievement to make such long straight hafts. This is my Malay spear, just short of 5' made of a teak type of wood.Beautifully smooth and straight, with a little silver decoration.I am not that keen on silvery bit and bobs but it is quite pretty.There has been some fancy work on the blade and the best bit for me is the horn end.Tim

[Rick]

Tim , I have never seen an Indo blade like that one !
Fascinating , and not etched either .
Very nice spear !

/and yes ; I love spears !

[tom hyle]

What comment on that blade surface?
Tim, what people are those in the photo? It looks like grassland? I guess that shaft is almost as wiggly as the other one, though note that it doesn't wiggle much for the 1st 1/2, but only toward the butt. The other spear in the photo has one minor bend that restraightens; the spears in the background are not entirely visible, but demonstrate no major bends. (are the two men in the front in the photo leaders? This would mesh well with the wiggly shaft being a symbol, but is purely a guess) Most thrusting spears are actually used one handed; two handed pikes are not as common, and I don't know anything about their use in Africa. The twisty shaft made from a root, vine, or sapling is NOT limitted to Africa; it is seen in areas without forests of big trees; it is for instance seen in Mongolia and other parts of Tartarstan. Additionally, most of the African spears I've seen/handled that had handles had nice straight ones whose bends were very slight and/or seemed acquired with time (again, wood warps, especially thin pieces, and though we can blame bent spears on leaning, it's real hard to find an old piece of wood so narrow that hasn't warped, or even often from a pile of newly made ones.). The wiggly shaft is an inferior technology, driven, IMHO, by a lack of proper material; what else would drive it? This may have something to do with the mostly iron spears seen in some areas? It does matter; it matters a lot. It is seen in unforested areas, and also, yes, among poor people. A good spear handle is not usually an unimportant or cheap piece of technology. It certainly varies with country/culture, but this seems pretty constant; the idea that you can just stick a stick on there and it'll be fine is mostly seen in the modern industrial culture which doesn't use spears and for some reason sneers down on them and seems to define them by peasanty ones......One also wonders, re the photos and collected pieces, what affect Eurocolonial market agriculture and demand for wood was having on the natives' ability to afford good straight grain well-dried spear shafts (the ancient Germans aged theirs for 8 years minimum, I've read, but that was of longspears.....)? Also good shafts are not always seen out of areas that can produce them because of hurry; many old English levy pikes were made with "green" undried oak(!) handles on an emergency basis, and this is generally said to be why they are so bendy now. Mongols don't use a lariat (traditionally) they use a long lancelike stick with a closeable loop on the end. Not needed to be as strong as a spear (?maybe!!!), but anyway, point is they're about 10 to 20 feet long, and I've even seen 'em made by binding multiple sticks together, because they just don't have the wood.

[tom hyle]

Rick, Is palma brava coconut wood? ("wood" I suppose, as it is not a tree.....) That simple spikey back ferule looks a lot like simple ones on Kayans from Luzon.

[tom hyle]

Tim, Therion has a couple of somewhat similar spears on his "sold" page, listed as Sumatran. Their blade tips are less wide......

[Lew]

Originally Posted by Rick

I store/display my spears horizontally on cafe curtain rod brackets . This method gives me the opportunity to rotate them and so far they've stayed fairly straight .

/keeping fingers crossed

Hi Rick
I think climate control and not so much as in what position a spear is displayed is just as important. Constant changes in humidity and temperature is more a factor of warpage than hanging them horizontally or vertically. I keep the temperature within 3-5 degrees all year round with low moderate humidity.

Lew

[Rick]

Hi Lew , I wish I could regulate my in house temp and humidity .
I certainly am in no position to determine which method of display is better .
I live right next to a tidal marsh and have no central AC .
I'm at the mercy of the elements .

Not to mention my Wife who keeps eyeing the spears as possible curtain rods .

[Tim Simmons]

Hello Tom, I must get back to what I am trying to illustrate.Which is that not every curved,bowed or kinked spear is warped.I have been looking to show more pictures of said spears in use, from South Africa in particular,but have no more at home.I will look in town tomrrow and when I find them you will be the first to see them.I know it is right about wood drying out and bending but next time one lays eyes on a warped spear remember like the song <it aint necessarily so>.With Freddy's pictures, is it not a bit like me still believing that I have hair ? The people in the picture, the source says,Luo warriors western Kenya.In the meantime look at this really nice spear.Tim

[Rick]

Originally Posted by tom hyle

Rick, Is palma brava coconut wood? ("wood" I suppose, as it is not a tree.....) That simple spikey back ferule looks a lot like simple ones on Kayans from Luzon.

Some sort of palm wood Tom , heavy and dense .
Yeah , the shoes probably look similar just because of their simplicity .
They are however complete Mandayan spears .
I have yet to see any other examples .

[Lew]

Rick

You see that is where we differ my wife has no interest in what I collect so my spears are safe from being made into curtain rods . You can try waxing the shafts with carnuba wax this will keep the moisture level more constant during the different seasons.


Lew

[Rick]

Thanks for the tip Lew .

[Conogre]

Often the straightness of the haft depends upon the original use of the spear itself, as well as where and when it was made.
Much of northern Africa has become severely deforested, with arrid expanses of desert bearing tribal names that translate as the "black forest" and such (and not the one in Germany! LOL! I already saw that one coming) and since wood is also the ONLY heating and cooking source, ANY stick will do as long as it's the appropriate length.
Not all of this deforestation, by the way is recent, and has been ongoing for over 2,000 years, at least partly speculated as causes for the fall of the Nubian and Egyptian kingdoms.
Hunting spears are often not as straight as we imagine because they are not intended to be thrown for great distances, with the skill of the hunter in being able to approach closely of prime importance.....even a wiggly shaft will fly straight over 30 yards or so when the weight of the head is taken into consideration.
Here are some of my spears, with the supports made out of plexiglass so as to not obstruct the view of the weaon/shaft.
Mike

[Tim Simmons]

Hello Mike, you have left your leopard skin posing pouch hanging on one of your spears Tim