Sabre with unknown origins

[kronckew]

Acquired by a friend of mine, we can't decide where it comes from, or it's age. Any comments appreciated, especially if anyone can read the Kufic style calligraphy on the blade. We suspect from the clipped point it comes from the southern Russian (Cossack?) areas near Turkey that were influenced by the Turks and Islamic weaponry. Thanks for any comments.

[kronckew]

Ah, well. Owner found an independent source of ID. Turns out the shamshir's got the Afghani royal crest on it, and on the other side is the master armorer’s mark in kufi calligraphy, with reference to Kabul. It was probably made during the reign of Nadir Shah 1929-1939. looks like only 100 were made...

[Sajen]

Maybe the thread should get moved to the ethnograhic section to get some more response!?

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Maybe the thread should get moved to the ethnograhic section to get some more response!?

Probably,

Also have someone telling me it's more likey from the 1890's...

If Fernando can move it...

[AJ1356]

From your poor quality pictures I can read;کار خانه کابل Kar Khanah e Kabul, 1312. I did not see the seal maybe it is there.

[kronckew]

Thanks, that is 1895 in our calendar. I'll have him send me better photos when it arrives. the photo was resized from an auction house pic.

[AJ1356]

It is not 1895. Right now is 1396, so take 1312 out of that -> that is 84 years ago. Correct age is 1934, not 1895.

[kronckew]

It is now 1439 hijiri

[AJ1356]

It is 1439 Hijri Qamari (Lunar), but it is 1396 Hijri Shamshi (Solar) Afghanistan and Iran go by the Solar calendar, so

[kronckew]

OK, I stand corrected. Too many different calendars.... I spent 10 yrs. in Saudi, so I was familiar with the Arabic version... this converter says 1933 tho, not 1934

[AJ1356]

close enough Three first months of Gregorian calendar falls in one year and the remaining nine in the next. The new year starts with the first day of Spring, around March 20-22, think Zodiac Calendar.

[kronckew]

AH, the sword was bought with two others, a talwar and a khyber. Owner is asking for help translating what's on the top two. If you can help, it's appreciated. Thanks for any help. Are these in the same date range (1930's)?

Slightly better photo of the lot... Not arrived yet so he can't tell what's on the other side...

[AJ1356]

Once he has received the items, have him take some nice detail pictures and then I'll translate them. I think the other two items are older.

[kronckew]

I've had more info on the dates and had info from some other acquaintances and found 3 more swords with very similar Afghani blades as the shamshir from a variety of vendors with dates in the 1314 range attributed to the late 19c. I noted that the solar calendar that puts them at the 1930's was not adopted by the Afghani legislature until Gregorian 1922! So swords made before that in 1895 apparently marked with the Arabian version of the calendar, not the Persian. Confusing, isn't it?

[AJ1356]

Originally Posted by kronckew

I've had more info on the dates and had info from some other acquaintances and found 3 more swords with very similar Afghani blades as the shamshir from a variety of vendors with dates in the 1314 range attributed to the late 19c. I noted that the solar calendar that puts them at the 1930's was not adopted by the Afghani legislature until Gregorian 1922! So swords made before that in 1895 apparently marked with the Arabian version of the calendar, not the Persian. Confusing, isn't it?

You are correct. During the reign of King Amanullah, Afghanistan went from Hijri Qamari, to Hijri Shamsi. I would put the change closer to 1919 though. I am not sure of the exact dates, just remember roughly from history books about 30 years ago in primary school. If all my books were not in boxes now I could have opened on and found out exactly.

[kronckew]

,The swords have arrived at my friend's home. He's sent some pics. The Royal Crest is prominent on the blade and scabbard of the sabre. the text on the khyber knife and the talwar is clear, the talwar grip has a faint motif of dotted circles, one just forward of the hilt rivet (which I gather is an Afghani custom unlike Indian ones).

If you can read them & let us know he would be a happy man...Thanks in advance. A flood of pictures follow. (one shows even the sabre's spine is decorated). Afghan crest included.

[kronckew]

More

[kronckew]

The khyber:

[kronckew]

The talwar:

[AJ1356]

Easy things first, since I have a couple of exams and should not let myself get distracted alot .
on the original to the right of the date it reads Faqeer Hussain, which I am going to guess is the name of the engraver. Very nicely engraved, also it bears the mark or Toopkhaanah or artillery. I had not seen this type of saber before, during and after living in Afghanistan, so it would mean very few were made or were made for high ranking officials.
I'll do some detailed work maybe tomorrow.

[AJ1356]

Ok so the words at the tip on both sides are not clear and thy kind of give context to the rest. The rest pretty clear, it has the name of Panj Tan (The Messenger of God, Muhammad [pbuh], his daughter Fatima, her husband Ali, their sons Hassan and Hussain [ar]), meaning it was owned by someone of the Shia branch of Islam. It looks like the letters were itched on is that correct or the pictures show it like that?

[AJ1356]

On the tulwar the dots I feel are Indian motive. This was either a trade item or most likely a captured item that someone decided to customize. To whomever had it he would have known it or called it a shamshir (sword), and the other one would have been known as a saylaawa , Khyber knife is not what they are called, some areas may call it shuray , but mostly known as saylaawa. The writing are poems just need better pics of areas indicated with arrows.

[kronckew]

Better pics of the Khyber knife. He's cleaned the muck off them all a bit...

(I did tell him they are more locally called salawar, or salawar yataghans, but most western people still call them Khyber knives, as we discussed here before...)

[kronckew]

More from the talwar: in batches

[kronckew]

more:

[kronckew]

..and finally (Allah be praised! )

[AJ1356]

دران وقتیکه دختر داد با علی سر افرازش when he gave (in marriage) his daughter to Ali honored him.
شنیدستم که فخر آل آدم محمد پاشا هر دو عالم I have heard (that is the best I could make out of it) that pride of children of Adam, Muhammad king of both worlds.

[AJ1356]

سر افگنده و بر کشیده کلاه در آمد یپایین )از( تخت شاه
بهرچه خوش آید بدند آن او نتابند گردن ز فرمان او
اشارت کند تا رقیبان تخت بسازند با شاه فیروز بخت
With head lowered (ashamed) and hat (crown) removed
The king came down from his throne
Whatever he (this is someone else) liked they gave to him
They would not stray from his orders
Gestures so the competitors for the throne
Cooperate with the glorious king.

These six verse are from a bigger poem I am not sure what, or who is the poet.

the other side sounds fragmented there are 5 verses which does not sound right and the only ones that rhyme are verse 3 and 4. I could not make out the ones indicated before, even with the better pictures.

[kronckew]

Thanks for all the effort. I'm sure he will be happy with that. the tip of the salawar was a bit corroded I gather, and looks like it was not as well etched on the one side...Looks a bit like it was done with a stencil that didn't quite fit.
best regards,
Wayne

edited:
He's just sent me some final pics of the salawar after a bit more cleaning (he's a professional restorer by the way, unlike me.) along with his thanks for a job well and speedily done. I've rotated & cropped them a bit to fit the max size here (that's why some have odd corners ) Not sure if that unclear side is any more intelligible.

[kronckew]

Just for interest, The owner polished and etched a small area on the talwar, he says it looks more like a small tight birdseye Damascus pattern welding rather than the wootz he's handled before.