11th July 2009, 10:15 AM | #1 |
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gold hilt
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11th July 2009, 11:16 AM | #2 | |
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Yes there are some great kerisses and hilts in musea all over the world.
Here in Holland we have obviously many many superb pieces in musea that unfortunately are rarely on display. Quote:
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11th July 2009, 11:57 AM | #3 |
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Thank you Karset,
very nice hilt! sajen |
11th July 2009, 03:11 PM | #4 |
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Very nice. Let's just put it up here. You never know when these linked sources will just disappear.
The information on this site says the hilt is gold and cinnabar. This confuses me a bit because AFAIK cinnabar is a mineral that is basically the ore for mercury. I am not sure how it can be used to make a hilt. Any ideas? |
11th July 2009, 06:51 PM | #5 |
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cinnabar is a blood red mineral that carves well and is used in conjunction with gold to produce jewellery.
could this be a gold cover on a cinnabar stone core? any red bits showing on th other side perhaps? i find it hard to believe they'd make that of solid gold. aside from the expense it'd make the keris quite heavy to carry if it were and the balance would be terrible. or more regionally correct an indonesian talisman container made of gold, silver and cinnabar you can just make out the dark red-brown stone behind the gold scrollwork. Linky it's actually from the same site as the hilt. another indonesian item from the same site. cinnabar more obvious. moluccan buginese disks, gold alloy filligree over cinnabar, islamic Last edited by kronckew; 11th July 2009 at 07:17 PM. |
11th July 2009, 08:57 PM | #6 |
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Ah, thanks, i didn't realize they used it this way. The hilt most probably is not solid gold, though if it were it would be a matter of status and not a fighting blade so balance would not be an issue.
I think it is fairly clear though that the gold is overlaid on something for this hilt. I would imagine if it is cinnabar that it was a mighty big chunk and is probably pretty heavy as well. |
11th July 2009, 09:08 PM | #7 |
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cinnabar is also known as vermillion, and was used in chinese medicines to increase life, the first emperor was given mercury derived from cinnabar to make him immortal. it didn't work. he died insane from mercury pison apparently, and would have lived a lot longer without it...
heated it gives off sulphur dioxide when it does start to decompose, at that is highly toxic and the level at which it kills is undetectable to the human nose (ie. by the time it's strong enough for you to smell it, it's too late, you're dead already). in lower concenrations it is very irtritating to the lungs as in contact with moisture it turns to sulphuric acid. Last edited by kronckew; 11th July 2009 at 09:43 PM. |
11th July 2009, 11:02 PM | #8 | |
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I wonder if it was ever used as a poison . Sprinkle a little in the king's bedtime incense or something like that . |
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11th July 2009, 11:25 PM | #9 |
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ingesting it certainly didn't do the emperor any good wasn't all that fast acting tho.
if you want to poison someone, there are much quicker options. might be useful if you want to see them suffer for a long while before they die. sprinking it on their charcoal heating burner might produce enough gas to irritate him, but it's take a much more substantial amount to kill*. or a small amt. in a small space... a charcoal burner itself can give off carbon monoxide, a more subtle killer. and one used to good effect by assassins in rome & other cultures on occasion. it would be easy enough to restrict the oxygen supply to the burner to produce the CO. just cut down on the room ventilation. my favourite at the moment is the so. american golden poison frog this little (5cm/2 in.) fellow has enough poison to kill 20 men. dogs have died from touching a paper towel a frog had walked across. darts dipped in it's poison stay lethal for over two years.... *- i've heard of men who climbed down into a pump room on an oil tanker where so2 had accumulated from high sulphur crude oil pump leaks, and died. their shipmate who went looking for them saw them collapsed on the deck & went down to rescue him, and died, the shipmate who went looking for the second also went down and died. after 5 they finally caught on, wore breathing apparatus to go down and collect the remains, and fans to ventilate the space. designs changed after that... Last edited by kronckew; 11th July 2009 at 11:48 PM. |
12th July 2009, 04:14 AM | #10 |
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wow,,,thanks kronckew.
a years ago i still thinking they use "jabung" ( mix of coal tar and teracota dust ) only. |
12th July 2009, 02:43 PM | #11 |
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This gold hilt is in the Asian collection of the Australian National Gallery.
It is identified as from Sunda, and as the hilt of a keris. Additionally one of the materials used in its construction has been named as cinnabar. There are several things that I find strange in this attribution and description. The major question for me is how cinnabar was used in its construction. This type of hilt is typical of a Javanese pedang, not a keris, and the way in which it is made is by embossing the motif into a shell of metal, which is then joined and chased, and filled with either a shellac mixture or a mixture that includes damar, a natural resin. I cannot understand how cinnabar enters the equation. I have noted erroneous descriptions of Javanese objects in Australian collections and exhibitions in the past, some that were really ludicrous. I suggest that perhaps the description of this hilt might be taken with caution until a confirmation can be obtained. Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 12th July 2009 at 11:18 PM. |
12th July 2009, 03:00 PM | #12 | |
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that is interesting, i found a notation that chinese cinnabar statues were actually made of laquer with cinnabar pigment which was built up in layers before being carved....
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p.s. nepal uses tree rosin, dried cow dung filler, powdered stone and/or bark as their cutlers cement for filling and securing khukuri grips, it's called laha. stinks when heated too! strong and durable, and reuseable. want a new grip? heat & pull. reverse for new grip. reminds me of the indian tulwar, grips and blades kept seperately in armoury, only put together when war declared. slowed down arming rebels or mutineers during peacetime. similar rosin based cutler cement involved there too! Last edited by kronckew; 12th July 2009 at 03:23 PM. |
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13th July 2009, 05:42 PM | #13 | |
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