gold hilt

[karset]

http://cs.nga.gov.au/Detail-LRG.cfm?IRN=140710&View=LRG

nice and rare.

[erikscollectables]

Yes there are some great kerisses and hilts in musea all over the world.

Here in Holland we have obviously many many superb pieces in musea that unfortunately are rarely on display.

Originally Posted by karset

http://cs.nga.gov.au/Detail-LRG.cfm?IRN=140710&View=LRG

nice and rare.

[Sajen]

Thank you Karset,

very nice hilt!

sajen

[David]

Very nice. Let's just put it up here. You never know when these linked sources will just disappear.
The information on this site says the hilt is gold and cinnabar. This confuses me a bit because AFAIK cinnabar is a mineral that is basically the ore for mercury. I am not sure how it can be used to make a hilt. Any ideas?

[kronckew]

cinnabar is a blood red mineral that carves well and is used in conjunction with gold to produce jewellery.


could this be a gold cover on a cinnabar stone core? any red bits showing on th other side perhaps? i find it hard to believe they'd make that of solid gold. aside from the expense it'd make the keris quite heavy to carry if it were and the balance would be terrible.

or more regionally correct an indonesian talisman container made of gold, silver and cinnabar


you can just make out the dark red-brown stone behind the gold scrollwork.

Linky it's actually from the same site as the hilt.


another indonesian item from the same site. cinnabar more obvious. moluccan

buginese disks, gold alloy filligree over cinnabar, islamic

[David]

Ah, thanks, i didn't realize they used it this way. The hilt most probably is not solid gold, though if it were it would be a matter of status and not a fighting blade so balance would not be an issue.
I think it is fairly clear though that the gold is overlaid on something for this hilt. I would imagine if it is cinnabar that it was a mighty big chunk and is probably pretty heavy as well.

[kronckew]

cinnabar is also known as vermillion, and was used in chinese medicines to increase life, the first emperor was given mercury derived from cinnabar to make him immortal. it didn't work. he died insane from mercury pison apparently, and would have lived a lot longer without it...

heated it gives off sulphur dioxide when it does start to decompose, at that is highly toxic and the level at which it kills is undetectable to the human nose (ie. by the time it's strong enough for you to smell it, it's too late, you're dead already). in lower concenrations it is very irtritating to the lungs as in contact with moisture it turns to sulphuric acid.

[Rick]

Originally Posted by kronckew

cinnabar is also known as vermillion, and was used in chinese medicines to increase life, the first emperor was given mercury derived from cinnabar to make him immortal. it didn't work. he died insane from mercury pison apparently, and would have lived a lot longer without it...

heated it gives off sulphur dioxide when it does start to decompose, at that is highly toxic and the level at which it kills is undetectable to the human nose (ie. by the time it's strong enough for you to smell it, it's too late, you're dead already). in lower concenrations it is very irtritating to the lungs as in contact with moisture it turns to sulphuric acid.

Fascinating !
I wonder if it was ever used as a poison .
Sprinkle a little in the king's bedtime incense or something like that .

[kronckew]

ingesting it certainly didn't do the emperor any good wasn't all that fast acting tho.

if you want to poison someone, there are much quicker options. might be useful if you want to see them suffer for a long while before they die.

sprinking it on their charcoal heating burner might produce enough gas to irritate him, but it's take a much more substantial amount to kill*. or a small amt. in a small space... a charcoal burner itself can give off carbon monoxide, a more subtle killer. and one used to good effect by assassins in rome & other cultures on occasion. it would be easy enough to restrict the oxygen supply to the burner to produce the CO. just cut down on the room ventilation.

my favourite at the moment is the so. american golden poison frog

this little (5cm/2 in.) fellow has enough poison to kill 20 men. dogs have died from touching a paper towel a frog had walked across. darts dipped in it's poison stay lethal for over two years....

*- i've heard of men who climbed down into a pump room on an oil tanker where so2 had accumulated from high sulphur crude oil pump leaks, and died. their shipmate who went looking for them saw them collapsed on the deck & went down to rescue him, and died, the shipmate who went looking for the second also went down and died. after 5 they finally caught on, wore breathing apparatus to go down and collect the remains, and fans to ventilate the space. designs changed after that...

[karset]

wow,,,thanks kronckew.
a years ago i still thinking they use "jabung" ( mix of coal tar and teracota dust
) only.

[A. G. Maisey]

This gold hilt is in the Asian collection of the Australian National Gallery.

It is identified as from Sunda, and as the hilt of a keris.

Additionally one of the materials used in its construction has been named as cinnabar.

There are several things that I find strange in this attribution and description.

The major question for me is how cinnabar was used in its construction.

This type of hilt is typical of a Javanese pedang, not a keris, and the way in which it is made is by embossing the motif into a shell of metal, which is then joined and chased, and filled with either a shellac mixture or a mixture that includes damar, a natural resin.

I cannot understand how cinnabar enters the equation.

I have noted erroneous descriptions of Javanese objects in Australian collections and exhibitions in the past, some that were really ludicrous. I suggest that perhaps the description of this hilt might be taken with caution until a confirmation can be obtained.

[kronckew]

that is interesting, i found a notation that chinese cinnabar statues were actually made of laquer with cinnabar pigment which was built up in layers before being carved....

Lacquered art pieces have been produced in China for many centuries. Lacquer is produced from the sap of the lac tree, which is commonly found in central and southern China. Various pigments are added to the resulting lacquer to change its color, and then the lacquer is applied in many coats to an art object. After many coats, the lacquer is carved, producing unique designs, patterns, and subjects. On lacquer, which was prominent throughout China, was cinnabar lacquer, which was made by mixing a seemingly innocuous mineral called cinnabar with lacquer. Cinnabar lacquer was used on a wide variety of pieces ranging in size from jewelry pieces to large ceramic or metal vases.

Cinnabar is a mineral that appears near volcanoes or hot springs. It is rich in mercury and, when ground into a fine powder, produces a deep red tint. It was believed at one point that the mercury's toxic effects could be neutralized with heat, but it appears that science has proven this theory incorrect. However, Cinnabar lacquer was produced and carved for many years before the toxic effects of mercury were discovered.

The production of a cinnabar lacquer piece is a fascinating and time consuming process. First, the base work was produced, whether it was a vase or a brooch. Next, layer after layer of cinnabar lacquer was applied. Often layers would alternate in color to achieve a multicolor effect in the design, and some pieces would feature more than 300 coats of lacquer. Each layer would have to dry before a new one was applied, so some pieces could take almost half a year to prepare – some larger pieces could take years! Once the lacquer layers had reached the correct depth, the carving process could begin.

Carving a cinnabar lacquer piece was a very delicate process, and could take the artist many years to complete. Care was needed, since a slip could require filling with many new layers of lacquer or could necessitate a complete re-do of the entire project. Once the carving was finished, another layer of lacquer would be added to seal the carving. Clear lacquer with no cinnabar was often used in this final step to keep the piece from spreading mercury to the skin – this was especially important for jewelry pieces.

Many cinnabar lacquer pieces are still available at auction, and are highly prized for the richness of color and intricacy of carving. Minimizing exposure to these older pieces is essential to prevent any contamination, but pieces kept behind glass can still be a valuable part of any collection. While true cinnabar lacquer pieces are hardly ever produced today, many carvers work with simulated chemical cinnabar in their lacquer. This has allowed carved lacquer pieces to remain in production, without the harmful effects possible when working with cinnabar.

maybe we are converging on it. pine rosin and brick dust are a traditional western cutlers cement, jabung as noted above is much the same, throw in agm's shellac. red powdered stone/brick all much of a sameness all of a sudden, some sort of resinous shellac/laquer combined with a red powdered stone/brick used as a cutler's cement. we now cover east and west.

p.s. nepal uses tree rosin, dried cow dung filler, powdered stone and/or bark as their cutlers cement for filling and securing khukuri grips, it's called laha. stinks when heated too! strong and durable, and reuseable. want a new grip? heat & pull. reverse for new grip. reminds me of the indian tulwar, grips and blades kept seperately in armoury, only put together when war declared. slowed down arming rebels or mutineers during peacetime. similar rosin based cutler cement involved there too!

[khalifah muda]

Originally Posted by David

Very nice. Let's just put it up here. You never know when these linked sources will just disappear.
The information on this site says the hilt is gold and cinnabar. This confuses me a bit because AFAIK cinnabar is a mineral that is basically the ore for mercury. I am not sure how it can be used to make a hilt. Any ideas?

a very good example of eastern artifact i should say. nice & popping my eyes...pheeww