![]() |
![]() |
#1 |
Keris forum moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,085
|
![]()
I know we have discussed these hilts before, however, it's been more than 5 years since our last serious discussion and in that time we have all had opportunity for gaining more knowledge as well as our group gaining new membership. Since i have recently acquired an example of this hilt form i thought it might be a good time to revisit the question.
I realize that "wadon" is a Javanese term (for woman) so pehaps it does not apply to this Bali hilt. These hilts have been described as Durga, but despite the assertion by Kerner, Jensen and others who follow them i have yet to see any real evidence for this assumption. Though certainly female in form it seems to me that this figure is most probably divine and therefore more than simply a "woman", so "wadon" seems inadequate as well. I certain welcome speculative thinking here, especially if it can be supported with logic. What, do we suppose, is the meaning of the veiling of the figure? What is held in the hand? The figure is decidedly alien-like. In this example i have noticed a certain insect-like quality as well, similar perhaps to a kocetan hilt. Does it look to anyone else that the features that start at each side of the head and travel over the shoulders to the back are somewhat antenna-like, as those often seen on kocetan hilts? I am making no conclusions here, simply trying to decipher the elements of this hilt and get the conversation rolling. So, she seems to be a goddess or divine being, but i don't see any symbolism in the form that would tie her to Durga per se. Who could she be? Who would carry such a hilt in a cultural context (as i have always assumed that certain hilts are more appropriate for certain people than others)? This form seems relatively rare so it doesn't seem it would be carried by just anybody. Below is a link to that last good discussion we had on these hilts 5 years ago. I quick look there before responding would probably be helpful. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=durga+hilt |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#2 |
Keris forum moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,085
|
![]()
Soooooo....95 views and not a single reply. Is it that folks consider this a dead end or that they feel everything has been said that can be said? I still find this hilt form to be one full of mystery and unanswered question. I do realize that questions can't always be answered, but i can't help but be left wanting more in this case. I don't find myself content with either Durga of simply wadon as the designation for this hilt.
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#3 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,740
|
![]()
Hi David,
As usual it is very difficult to get any reliable information about the krisses from Bali /Lombok. According to the the book "Keris Bali Bersejarah" from the Neka Art Museum this hilt (danganan) is called meseh rupa (see page 134) without any information. And there are several similar silver hilts shown in the book "Keris di Lombok" by H. Lalu Djelenga (see pages 82,83, and 168), they all look pretty recent and the local name is different (I forgot it), may be Pak Hartadi can confirm it as well as the local interpretation. To me this hilt seems to depict the veiled Durga or Calon Arang/ Rangda. Regards |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#4 | |
Keris forum moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,085
|
![]() Quote:
Calon Arang and Rangda are often associated with Durga, but most certainly not the same being. These witch demons also have very standard depictions in Bali and Jawa culture, fierce demon woman with wild hair, bulging eyes, fangs and long nails (claws) on all their fingers (note in my example that only the pinky nails are long) . They are often seen as hefty females forms, often topless. But i have never seen them veiled either. Hiding their frightening appearance under a veil would also seem counter to their purpose in the lore. There is no mystery about their appearance, they are meant to strike fear in the hearts of those who view them. But these "wadon" hilts show none of that. They are a veiled mystery with a stilled silence about them. They have none of the usual motifs or accompanying figures that are known to be related to Durga, Calon Arang or Rangda. So i have a real difficulty accepting the designation simply because it has been called that in a passing reference in a book. It just doesn't seem to jive to me. ![]() I do not own the Balinese reference books you mention so i am afraid i cannot follow your page citations."Meseh Rupa" is a at least a dead end on the internet. Maybe someone has more on this. I would also be curious to find out approximately when this hilt form first made it's appearance. You say the ones in Keris di Lombak look fairly recent. Mine has some age, but i don't believe it is too old. Does anyone have any obviously old examples to this form to show? Last edited by David; 16th February 2015 at 07:36 PM. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#5 |
Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Oxford (UK)
Posts: 96
|
![]()
I have nothing to offer on the name, I'm afraid, but it seems likely that this type is of some age.There are at least three early examples of this type: in Jensen (Karsten Sejr), Den Indonesiske kris, et symbolladet våben (1998), p. 87, on a keris acquired before 1676 (a better photograph of this one is in his Krisdisk. Krisses from Indonesia, Malaysia and the Philippines (compact disk published by the author, 2007), ch. 6, pp. 26) and p. 91, on a keris acquired before 1618. The Krisdisk also has another, assigned to the 16th/17th century, ch. 6, p. 27.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#6 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,740
|
![]()
The common balinese name of this hilt is Balu Mekabun (the veiled widow?), and according to the detailed reference book from EAN Van Veeendaal "Krisgrepen en scheden uit Bali en Lombok" page 22, it depicts Durga/ Rangda. I have no more information to add but all the authors agree on this interpretation in absence of any other one.
The specimens shown in the books from the late Jensen or Kerner are older Javanese versions of this hilt IMO. Regards Last edited by Jean; 17th February 2015 at 08:48 AM. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#7 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,230
|
![]()
I am not able to answer on Davids questions or post pictures of some older specimens, yet have some observations.
I have seen some older hilts of this type, and they fill a wide range between quite realistic depictions, like the Keris from Vienna, symplified planar forms, and hilts, where this figure pass into floral ornaments. In the KITLV publication of Gronemans "The Javanese Kris" there is something like a Pakem from 1840, written in Surakarta. It starts on page 117 and has some hilts of this type. Quite realistic, with discernible palms, are hilts on pages 117, 123 (which otherwise is covered with floral motifs). Another, more abstract specimens are depicted on pages 119, 130, 131, 135. These hilts sometimes are already like "open borders" to planar or West-Javanese/Madurese floral hilts. An early specimen of this kind is depicted in Krisdisk, Ch. 6, p. 7. Another one - in Solyoms book, p.32. It seems these "Wadon" hilts could have been an issue in emergence of modern planar hilt forms (with Patra). Patra occur at the places, where breasts and toes are depicted on "Wadon" hilts.There are also some older planar hilts with grooves, which are connecting both Patra. An interesting point is orientation of the hilt. The old (and also the newer ones from Bali) figural hilts are always mounted with face to the width of the blade. The old "Wadon" hilts, which also are "figural" are always mounted with face to the Gandhik, like all planar hilts. Yes, and a beautiful specimen from an old thread, on a 17th century Javanese blade: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...t=veiled+durga Last edited by Gustav; 17th February 2015 at 12:33 PM. Reason: link added |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#8 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,230
|
![]()
Now I have read the whole thread http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...t=veiled+durga, with the excellent posts of Marto Suwignyo, and must say, my post as such was completely superfluous.
A good lecture. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#9 |
Keris forum moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,085
|
![]()
Thanks for reviving that thread Gustav. I had forgotten about it and for some reason did not see it when i was reviewing the archives on the subject. As you might image, my thinking seems most in line with Marto Suwignyo on that thread who sums up with the following:
The argument for a Durga attribution that you have precised seems to indicate that Phillipovich is using a similar style of logic to that which others have applied in naming this form "Durga". For instance, I have in front of me eight handles with a female form.Three are variations of the wadon form which we have been discussing, one is an abstract but unmistakeably female form,another is an even more abstract form, one is Rangda, one a more or less normal female, the last is a nightmare with female characteristics.Of all these figures, only Rangda is easily identifiable. The others could be anything, and an argument could be constructed to support almost any attribution. In fact, I could probably construct a more convincing argument that any one of these figures is in fact Little Red Riding Hood, than any argument I have yet heard to support the Durga attribution for our original handle form. Wolviex, you ask:- "So my question is, is there any other goddess/deity covering herself?" I`m not at all certain that this is the right question, Wolviex. Do we yet have a proof that the figure depicted is in fact covering herself? I think not. Do we yet have a proof that the oft mentioned veil is in fact a veil? I think not. Do we yet have a proof that the depictation is indeed a deity? I think not. Do we yet have a proof that we are in fact looking at Durga? I think not. Now in my example posted here it does seem most likely that the figure is in fact covering herself. If not then i don't know quite what else is supposed to be depicted here. Whether this is intended to be a veil or not might still be in question though. In this example the covering seems almost like a helmet. I cannot say that there is proof of divinity here, but it seems likely. The hands are seen a mudra position which is often the case in statues depicting Hindu deities. As for the Durga question, i still see nothing that specifically ties this figure to her though any of the symbolic gestures or poses of the figure, nor to Rangda/Calon Arang for that matter. I am afraid that i cannot accept such an identification based solely on the fact that "all the authors agree on this interpretation in absence of any other one", especially when as far as i can tell, these authors have presented no logical argument for such an identification. ![]() Perhaps this will remain a mystery, but that mystery is just too enticing not to at least continue the search. Perhaps there is some clue in the Balinese name "Balu Mekabun", especially the widow part??? ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#10 |
Member
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,817
|
![]()
I can add nothing of any value to what has already been offered.
Currently I'm in Solo, but before getting here yesterday I was in Bali for a few days. When this question was once again raised by David, I asked a couple of keris conscious friends to have a look at the hilt form posted and give an opinion. One of these friends is a man of 69 years who has collected and dealt keris for most of his adult life. Neither of my friends had any definitive answer. All the most knowledgeable friend was willing to say was that :- "it is clearly a woman", so OK, what woman? deity ? someone from myth or legend? can we name the woman? " I' ve never heard anybody with any true knowledge give a name to that woman or that handel form" This just about boils down to what I've been told in Solo years ago:- "wadon" Possibly the answer may lay in the function of the keris as a cosmic bond , with the blade having masculine character, the scabbard having feminine character, the pesi as lingga, and the feminine enclosing the lingga, so we have the female wrongko enclosing the male wilah, and the female jejeran enclosing the male lingga. As a totality we have a representation of society. The female has no face, because she is representative of the female element, not any specific female. Don't take what I've just written as any accurate explanation. Its not. Its just an idea based upon the nature of the keris and the way people here can think. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#11 |
Keris forum moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,085
|
![]()
Thanks for sharing your ideas Alan. I see the logic in your possible explanation, though certainly won't consider it a definitive answer. But your kind of critical thinking was what i was trying to get started even if it does not lead to any solid conclusions. Hopefully i am not the only one who finds this mysterious hilt form an alluring enigma.
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#12 |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 56
|
![]()
In Lombok, hilt like this named "Balu Mekebun"
Balu = widow Mekebun = Condition where the hairs screws up with the explanation of a process during a woman become a devil. (LEAK = devil in Lombok language). She will bring down all of her hairs to cover her face until no body know she will be a "LEAK / devil " I've got the hilt on my room made of silver. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#13 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,740
|
![]()
Hello Hartadi,
Nice hilt, thanks! And do you know if this woman is just an unknown demon or if she depicts an Hindu Goddess? Regards |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#14 | |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 56
|
![]() Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#15 |
Keris forum moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,085
|
![]()
Thanks for the addition input Hartadi...and the beautiful silver example!
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#16 |
Member
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,817
|
![]()
Thank you for your comments, Mr. Hartadi. I find this Lombok attribution to be rather thought provoking.
The following comments that I will make are not in any way to be understood as a casting of doubt upon your comments, nor as any sort of challenge to the beliefs of keris conscious people living in Lombok --- or anywhere else for that matter. However, what you have written does vary significantly from the usual Balinese understanding of the leak, and in addition, what you have written does raise some questions. The leak (or leyak) is an indigenous Balinese being. In daylight they appear to be a normal human being, but at night they can appear as they really are, just a head with trailing guts. They have the power to transform into other things, not necessarily living things, they might take the form of some sort of inanimate thing. Leaks are generally perceived in Bali as really bad news, to be avoided at all costs, but many years ago I was told by a Brahmin whose daughter was married to my wife’s cousin that leaks are not necessarily bad and can help a person if the way is understood. Actually, a leak is a human being who has changed to a leak because of the practice of black magic. There are several different types of leak, and I forget what they are and what their characters are, I cannot go to my references as I am away from home at the moment. The boss of the leaks is Rangda, who as we know is an incarnation of Dewi Durga. I cannot recall any belief or tradition in Bali where a leak will cover its face to avoid recognition. In fact, a leak has the ability to change form if it wishes to avoid recognition, and during daylight hours a leak will look like an ordinary person. So, cover the face with hair to avoid recognition? Maybe in Lombok, but not in Bali. If I were at home I could give references to substantiate what I have written, but I’m not at home, so I cannot.. However, leaks and their place in the Balinese folk belief systems are very well known so finding references should not be at all difficult. Whenever I hear or see discussion on this female hilt form there is always one question that comes to the front of my mind:- when and where were the names that are commonly used first found? Who first decided this form was a representation of Dewi Durga? Who first named this form as “Balu Mekabun”? When? Then there is the question of exactly who and what Balu Mekabun is. My memory is far from perfect, as is my knowledge, but I cannot recall ever hearing “Balu Mekabun” applied to any character in Balinese folk belief other than by some people with an interest in the keris. Does Balu Mekabun exist in the wider spectrum of Balinese folk belief? I could be dead wrong, but I sort of have the feeling that what we have in Balu Mekabun is a European creation intended to give the impression of authenticity. Once in play, the term takes on a life of its own , just as Balinese hilts are widely referred to in Bali as “hendel”, or in a similar fashion to the way that the term “Keris Mojopahit” replaced the term “Keris Sajen” probably in the mid-1980’s. Inventions by bules that are taken up by people living in Jawa-Bali. Lets face it:- it helps trade if you let the buyers think they know what they’re talking about. If asked a question, make sure you give the answer that is expected. Don’t upset people who have power or money. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#17 |
Keris forum moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,085
|
![]()
Aside from the name issue Alan, how old would you say this hilt form might be? You you have any idea approximately when it may have first appeared?
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#18 |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 56
|
![]()
Hi Alan,
You are right for Leyak /Leak is a normal appears human during day time, In Lombok is a bad thing if people know some one is a leyak, she/he will be isolate from being human interaction, so thats why a figure on Balu Mekebun doesn't want others know who was that by covering it's face. leyak is also changes their self to what they want, usually as the animal, monkey, pig, dog, or human with very bad dirty face and hair. They can fly also with the light on come from their body. For other questions when and who named balu mekebun, unfortunately i can't answer that, because no authentic literature of Bali/Lombok legend or story. But you can ask keris folks in Lombok. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#19 |
Member
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,817
|
![]()
I think Gustav has offered some info on that matter, David.
Off the top of my head I cannot answer, I'm away from home, and stuff like this current question is not at all the sort of thing I try to to remember. If I were at home I'd have a look at a few references, here I cannot do this. Sorry. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
|
|