Visayan daga/sword/kris for comment

Sajen · 29th July 2013, 08:50 PM

Hello,

nearly can't believe that nobody else have bid on this Visayan daga or short sword (I don't like to name it kris). I was the only bidder but it was listed as Indonesian.

I think it is from around 1900 because of the buffalo horn bindings at the scabbard, sadly nearly all are gone but I think the handle with the double bakunawa head is very nice. Blade is 18 inches long. Look for example this old thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=visayan

Here the pictures from the seller.

VVV · 29th July 2013, 10:03 PM

Congratulations!!!

It's interesting with the twin Bakunawa-hilt combined with the kris blade.
I must check my search-settings so I will not miss if its brother will show up in the future.

Michael

Sajen · 29th July 2013, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV

Congratulations!!!

It's interesting with the twin Bakunawa-hilt combined with the kris blade.
I must check my search-settings so I will not miss if its brother will show up in the future.

Michael

Thank you Michael,

sometimes I have an unbelievable luck, still can't believe that I was the only one who have seen it.
I only have seen an other double Bakunawa-hilt hilt before, here in the forum from our ex-member zel and every time looked to this very nice example.

Regards,

Detlef

Battara · 30th July 2013, 02:51 AM

Michael is right. In fact the Visayans did get the kris influence from contacts with the Moros. They and the Ilocanos are the only ones I know who have a history of wavy blades outside of the Morolands.

BTW - I decided to pass on this when I saw it on eBay. Glad you got it.

Sajen · 30th July 2013, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

BTW - I decided to pass on this when I saw it on eBay. Glad you got it.

Thank you Jose in both ways!

Regards,

Detlef

Robert · 30th July 2013, 08:50 PM

Hello Detlef, Wonderful sword!! I fortunately did not see this when it was for sale, for unlike Jose I would have been bidding on it.

I have always wanted a Visayan example of these wavy bladed swords. My congratulations to you on finding one, especially with the original scabbard and twin Bakunawa-hilt.

You know who to contact if you ever get tired of looking after it.

Best,
Robert

Sajen · 30th July 2013, 11:25 PM

Hi Robert,

thank you and I am with you that I always wanted a Visayan waved blade. I am fascinated from above given thread and the beautiful examples Zel had posted in it. And they seem to be very rare since they not often seen for sell.
So please understand that I am sure that I don't will get tired to look at it soon.

Do you agree that it is most probable of Ilonggo origin?

Regards,

Detlef

Battara · 31st July 2013, 01:47 AM

Maybe but not necessarily. I think other Visayan groups use this form of scabbard too.

Sajen · 19th August 2013, 04:41 PM

Have received the sword and I am pleased with it. The scabbard is IMHO not the original one, see the additional pictures. The guard is slanted but the scabbard mouth is straight and worked for a single edged blade. The beautiful horn hilt has a silver ferrule and have had originally two silver panels and silver eyes, one is still present. It seems that the blade unfortunately was once cleaned mechanical. Here some first pictures.

Sajen · 19th August 2013, 07:44 PM

It is shameful what some poeple can do with good blades. After I have cleaned the blade the demage at the blade is now visible.
Do you see any chance to repair this?

Robert · 19th August 2013, 08:42 PM

Hello Detlef, Unfortunately I have to say that if it were mine I would leave it as is. The damage done by someone taking a grinder to the blade can be removed but at the expense of loosing quite a lot of metal, blade thickness and what is left of the patina and character that it has developed over the tears. The damage is now part of the unfortunate history of this piece. It is still a wonderful addition to your collection and thanks to you it will be getting the respect and care that it has been denied until now.

Best,
Robert

Iain · 19th August 2013, 08:46 PM

Agreed, nothing really you can do to remove the grind marks besides removing even more material - something I'd certainly want to avoid.

Ferguson · 19th August 2013, 08:54 PM

Don't dispair Detlef. It's still a wonderful piece, even with the grinder marks. With some fine sandpaper, P220 or finer, you can sand along the length of the sword until most of the marks are gone. then move to a finer grit, maybe 320 then 400 then 600. This will be very tedious, and will take some hours. But it can be done. Some may say to do nothing, and I might agree.

Good luck!

Steve

Edit: While I was composing my post, I see that others whom I respect very much suggested doing nothing. It is your decision.

Sajen · 19th August 2013, 09:57 PM

Thank you for your kind words Robert, Ian and Steve. When it only would be the grinder marks I would try to follow Steve's advice but the person who have done this has let areas where he has changed the profile of the blade (see pictures) and I really think that there is nothing what I can do to withdraw this. The shown areas are only a few examples. It's a real shame.

Sajen · 2nd July 2014, 09:43 PM

Have get back the "kris" from a friend who is a master of blade restauration. He has worked out all the grinder marks, polished and etched the blade and has given back the blade it's beauty. The blade shows a very nice lamination and now I will try to replace the missing silver plates at the handle.
Here some pictures for sharing.

Robert · 2nd July 2014, 10:31 PM

Detlef, Your friend did an amazing job on this blade restoration. When I first started looking at the new photos I was worried that the medial ridge had been lost in the process of reworking the blade, but after I finished looking at them all I was happy to see that was not the case. Even though this is not what I would have done if this were mine I must say your friend did a great job of giving new life to an old and neglected warrior in desperate need of some TLC.

Best,
Robert

Sajen · 2nd July 2014, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert

Detlef, Your friend did an amazing job on this blade restoration. When I first started looking at the new photos I was worried that the medial ridge had been lost in the process of reworking the blade, but after I finished looking at them all I was happy to see that was not the case. Even though this is not what I would have done if this were mine I must say your friend did a great job of giving new life to an old and neglected warrior in desperate need of some TLC.

Best,
Robert

Hello Robert,

agree with you that he did an amazing job. I have had the same worries that the blade will lost the cental ridge by reworking so I never would have tried to do it byself but he was sure get back the original contour of the blade. When you handle the blade now you never will get the idea that it was in such a bad condition. And you still can see that it is an antique blade.

Regards,
Detlef

Battara · 3rd July 2014, 04:32 AM

I love the laminations in the blade!

29th July 2013, 08:50 PM	#1
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,779	Visayan daga/sword/kris for comment Hello, nearly can't believe that nobody else have bid on this Visayan daga or short sword (I don't like to name it kris). I was the only bidder but it was listed as Indonesian. I think it is from around 1900 because of the buffalo horn bindings at the scabbard, sadly nearly all are gone but I think the handle with the double bakunawa head is very nice. Blade is 18 inches long. Look for example this old thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=visayan Here the pictures from the seller. Attached Images Last edited by Sajen; 29th July 2013 at 09:24 PM.

30th July 2013, 11:25 PM	#7
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,779	Hi Robert, thank you and I am with you that I always wanted a Visayan waved blade. I am fascinated from above given thread and the beautiful examples Zel had posted in it. And they seem to be very rare since they not often seen for sell. So please understand that I am sure that I don't will get tired to look at it soon. Do you agree that it is most probable of Ilonggo origin? Regards, Detlef Attached Images

19th August 2013, 04:41 PM	#9
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,779	Have received the sword and I am pleased with it. The scabbard is IMHO not the original one, see the additional pictures. The guard is slanted but the scabbard mouth is straight and worked for a single edged blade. The beautiful horn hilt has a silver ferrule and have had originally two silver panels and silver eyes, one is still present. It seems that the blade unfortunately was once cleaned mechanical. Here some first pictures. Attached Images

19th August 2013, 07:44 PM	#10
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,779	It is shameful what some poeple can do with good blades. After I have cleaned the blade the demage at the blade is now visible. Do you see any chance to repair this? Attached Images

19th August 2013, 09:57 PM	#14
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,779	Thank you for your kind words Robert, Ian and Steve. When it only would be the grinder marks I would try to follow Steve's advice but the person who have done this has let areas where he has changed the profile of the blade (see pictures) and I really think that there is nothing what I can do to withdraw this. The shown areas are only a few examples. It's a real shame. Attached Images

29th July 2013, 10:03 PM	#2
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Congratulations!!! It's interesting with the twin Bakunawa-hilt combined with the kris blade. I must check my search-settings so I will not miss if its brother will show up in the future. Michael

30th July 2013, 02:51 AM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Michael is right. In fact the Visayans did get the kris influence from contacts with the Moros. They and the Ilocanos are the only ones I know who have a history of wavy blades outside of the Morolands. BTW - I decided to pass on this when I saw it on eBay. Glad you got it.

30th July 2013, 08:50 PM	#6
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hello Detlef, Wonderful sword!! I fortunately did not see this when it was for sale, for unlike Jose I would have been bidding on it. I have always wanted a Visayan example of these wavy bladed swords. My congratulations to you on finding one, especially with the original scabbard and twin Bakunawa-hilt. You know who to contact if you ever get tired of looking after it. Best, Robert

31st July 2013, 01:47 AM	#8
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Maybe but not necessarily. I think other Visayan groups use this form of scabbard too.

19th August 2013, 08:42 PM	#11
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hello Detlef, Unfortunately I have to say that if it were mine I would leave it as is. The damage done by someone taking a grinder to the blade can be removed but at the expense of loosing quite a lot of metal, blade thickness and what is left of the patina and character that it has developed over the tears. The damage is now part of the unfortunate history of this piece. It is still a wonderful addition to your collection and thanks to you it will be getting the respect and care that it has been denied until now. Best, Robert

19th August 2013, 08:46 PM	#12
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,693	Agreed, nothing really you can do to remove the grind marks besides removing even more material - something I'd certainly want to avoid.

19th August 2013, 08:54 PM	#13
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	Don't dispair Detlef. It's still a wonderful piece, even with the grinder marks. With some fine sandpaper, P220 or finer, you can sand along the length of the sword until most of the marks are gone. then move to a finer grit, maybe 320 then 400 then 600. This will be very tedious, and will take some hours. But it can be done. Some may say to do nothing, and I might agree. Good luck! Steve Edit: While I was composing my post, I see that others whom I respect very much suggested doing nothing. It is your decision.

2nd July 2014, 09:43 PM	#15
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,779	Have get back the "kris" from a friend who is a master of blade restauration. He has worked out all the grinder marks, polished and etched the blade and has given back the blade it's beauty. The blade shows a very nice lamination and now I will try to replace the missing silver plates at the handle. Here some pictures for sharing. Attached Images

2nd July 2014, 10:31 PM	#16
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Detlef, Your friend did an amazing job on this blade restoration. When I first started looking at the new photos I was worried that the medial ridge had been lost in the process of reworking the blade, but after I finished looking at them all I was happy to see that was not the case. Even though this is not what I would have done if this were mine I must say your friend did a great job of giving new life to an old and neglected warrior in desperate need of some TLC. Best, Robert

3rd July 2014, 04:32 AM	#18
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	I love the laminations in the blade!