Pamor Staining in the UK?

[William.m]

Hello all, I have a keris that is in dire need of getting its pamor back. Does anyone here know of anywhere that would stain my keris? I am looking for a place within the UK if possible.

Thanks!

William

[David]

Hi William. Is arsenic trioxide not available to do in England?

[Pusaka]

Harmful substances are heavily regulated in the UK, you might be able to find someone who will sell you some but it would be probably easer to import it.
I wonder what other substances could be used to etch keris, I think I recall reading that before the use of arsenic a concentrated citric acid from limes etc was heated and the keris blade was placed into the hot liquid to etch.

[David]

Arsenic trioxide is heavily regulated in the USA as well, but that doesn't mean there are not ways for the average citizen to obtain it if you put your mind to it. It would seem to me it would be much easier to find a source within the UK than to try to import a heavily regulated substance into the country.
Limes are still a part of the staining process. It would be interesting to know when arsenic was first used, but it is my understanding that it goes back a ways, giving rise to the early stories that keris blades were poisoned.

[Rick]

One could always hunt up some realgar at a mineral shop or on ebay .....

[Tim Simmons]

Would gun black work? There is a gunsmith not far from were I live. I have a tombak I would quite like to stain now that I have cleaned it.

[David]

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

Would gun black work? There is a gunsmith not far from were I live. I have a tombak I would quite like to stain now that I have cleaned it.

There are many sustances that will stain the iron of a keris or tombak...however, only arsenic will render it in the "proper" colors when done under the best of curcumstances. So in the end it will depend upon how much you feel obligated to maintaining the piece as it is traditionally supposed to look. For me personally that has some importance. For those who are not as much a stickler for authenticity other substances might do.

[A. G. Maisey]

Treasure thy arsenic whilst ye may.

The price of warangan in Solo has gone through the roof. It is still possible to get it done at a reasonable---although greatly elevated---cost, but the result is disgusting. A good job now costs like gold and that is if you can find somebody to do a good job.

Cost of the material has gone up, there is an increasing demand, and import of any type of arsenic has apparently been banned.

I think it will not be too long before sellers are offering blades for sale stained with ferric chloride, and with the option of a warangan stain at an extra cost.

It may well be that in time to come the only places to get a good quality traditional stain could be somewhere in the western world.

Hope I'm wrong, but the current cost of a good stain job is just not realistic, nor sustainable.

[David]

Alan, just for a point of reference, could you tell us what the average cost of a good staining actually is these days?

[William.m]

Hmm, I had a contact in France I think who would stain keris for £30. I wish I could find his details though!

Anyways thanks for the response so far.

Will

[A. G. Maisey]

David, as you would understand , that is a very difficult question for me to answer.

I probably cannot answer that question.

I can tell you this:- in the mid 1980's a very well known Solo m'ranggi was flown to Pontianak and paid the equivalent of a year's salary for a middle manager, to clean and stain a very small collection of keris. His return flight was also paid and he was provided with accomodation whilst there.

I know of one case of a wealthy collector who was so pleased with a clean and stain job that he gifted a car to the man who did the job.

I also know of many instances where a stain job will be done for nothing.

The cost of sufficient warangan to do a single blade, once, by the pinch method is now roughly $US2.

Jeruk nipis (limes) are currently around $US0.60 per kilo in Solo.

A moderately skilled tradesman gets RP50.000 per day in Solo(RP.9000=$US1).

A m'ranggi is a skilled artisan, not a bricklayer.

It can take anywhere between ten minutes and ten days to produce a good stain on a blade. And you need the experience to know what each individual blade should look like, and the skill to make it look that way.

[Marcokeris]

Some years ago, in Italy i bought realgar in a mineral shop and after i used it on a keris blade. The result was bad: at the and of the process (in a solution of realgar's dust and lemon) over the keris' blade remained a very thin coating of yellow /orange dust (sulphur?) and was very difficult to remove this dust.
On the contrary pink realgar buyed in indonesia never leaves residual matter sticked on the blade .

[David]

Thanks Alan. Though a difficult question you still managed to tell me what i wanted to know.

[A. G. Maisey]

Marco, lemons are no good to use in staining. Only lime juice is going to give a correct result. Don't ask me why, I don't know, but I've tried lemon juice a number of times, usually because limes were too expensive or unavailable at the time, and I've never yet had an acceptable result from lemon juice.

When you say a residue was left on the blade, did you allow the realgar to settle to the bottom of the liquid first? When you mix the warangan---or realgar--- into the juice you should wait about half an hour before you begin to use the suspension---note:- it is a suspension, not a solution.

Secondly, did you rinse thoroughly between each application of the liquid, and dry prior to beginning the subsequent applications?

Thirdly, did you rinse thoroughly, pat dry and sun dry the final application?

The warangan that I have bought in Solo varies a lot in colour, from white/yellow, to white, to yellow, to reddish yellow, to red, and all shades and combinations of shade in between.

[Marcokeris]

Alan thanks for your answer.
I never rinse by water between each application of the liquid prior to beginning the subsequent applications. I only dry the blade in a "non direct sunlight" place (do i wrong?)
Yes, after final application i rinse thouroughly but... when i put the blade to dry sometimes rust comes on the blade (but if i put weapon oil over the blade before to dry it the rust don't comes)
I use western lemon with (in my opinion) good outcome (maybe with indonesian limes it will be better but is not possible to find them in my cowntry). Some years ago I bought in a italian market some "brasilian" limes and used them with the same outcomes (but these limes, on the contrary of indonesian limes, didn't have any seed inside)
The warangan i usually buy in Yogya is the same colour you say . It is very expensive (80.000/100.000 rp for one gram) on the contrary of white warangan for rats.The dust is rather withe with very-very little cristal orange residual (in lemon juice).

[A. G. Maisey]

I just got blasted by FIREFOX.

Wrote a long an informative post on staining and then FIREFOX interupted me with updates and everything was lost. Great browser. Lousy manners.

Not going to write it again. Might some other time.

[David]

Hey Alan, that's certainly a teaser!
I hope you do decide to share this info with us soon, rude browsers not withstanding.

[Alam Shah]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

...Wrote a long an informative post on staining and then ... everything was lost...

Sometimes it happens...
Usually, I take it as a 'hint', it's not time to write...

Tip: for long post, it might be a good idea to write using a text editor like notepad, wordpad (... or what have you). Afterwhich copy and paste, and smileys... viola.

[Pusaka]

The basics are given here on how to clean the keris blade etc

http://old.blades.free.fr/keris/intr...ah/siraman.htm

[A. G. Maisey]

Yeah, I work off-line ar home, but in an intercafe cafe and under relatively adverse conditions, it is not all that easy. Probably write it again next week, if I have the opportunity.